Tag Archives: PZ Myers

The Zombie Atheist Movement

zombiea

I’m back but I’m not a zombie

My friend Vjack  over at Atheist Revolution has a post titled “The Day The Atheist Movement Died”. In case you haven’t noticed I’ve been absent from this blog, that has been due to another issue that need to be addressed. Now, as I bring my attention back to the atheist/skeptical community what do I see?  The EXACT SAME bullshit as when I stopped paying attention to it months ago. Stephanie Zvan is still complaining about the evil slymepit and acting as if when she has a bowel movement the world is showered with the aroma of rose petals. Rebecca Watson is still milking her claim that she is the primary target of all internet misogynists and gets a majority of the hate that exists on the net. I guess she still feels there is some doubt as to her motives. By now it’s pretty clear you prefer to have the spotlight pointed at you Rebecca, not only do you prefer it but you need it. Hide behind your lame snark and belittle as many critics as you like I find it sad you can’t see past the little crowd that support your hobby of self interest and realize how much respect you’ve lost among a larger portion. Those people don’t bother to even say anything to you so it’s easy to be unaware. It’s not like anyone has tried to bring this to your attention.

Ophelia Benson is still getting things wrong and then trying to play it off as though there is nothing that could prove her to be mistaken. She just twists her points into something else like someone making a balloon animal and then with a squeak and a twist turning it into something else every time the kids point out the shape looks nothing like any animal.

PZ Myer’s is of course doing the same old shit. Who expects any change from that tired old broken record? He is doomed to sitting in a room isolated from the real world except when someone who knows no better asks him to regurgitate some of his rambling  basic knowledge and un-witty wit at a conference. Even the general public can debate and make their points better than PZ these days so the need for him to point out the obvious will grow less and less as time passes.

Anthony what’s-his-name Brownian is STILL blaming me because he is too stupid to understand how facebook works or how the alphabet is not a super secret spy code people have to decipher before they can understand it lots of people can figure it out in their heads…..amazing! I’m afraid that idiot is determined to cry himself to death over the claim I dox’ed him. Or maybe he is hoping he can get a pity fuck out of it if he whines long enough. Pretty obvious he could use it cause that dude screams uptight virgin.

Social Justice Warriors are still finding new ways to claim (cry) that the world (men) is out to get them. Unfortunately for them there has been no real change in anything except the public awareness that they are not worthy of notice. They have now reached the point where if any real problem were to arise they wouldn’t be effective in bringing attention to it because of the past history of bullshit which follows them.

i wonder if any of these people took a few months off as I did and then came back if maybe, just maybe they would realize how little effectiveness they have on anything except to cause people to waste time pointing out how/why they are misguided.

Of course Jennifer McCreight  took some time off and still thinks she can make declarations about skeptics atheists or any other damn thing and be considered an authority despite the fact she has removed herself. PZ Myers Rebecca Watson and many others have told us they want nothing to do with or have no place in the atheist/skeptical movement yet they continue to comment on it and criticize it as though they are an active part. They are like skeptic/atheist zombies limping along grumbling about shit no one can understand as people scramble to get away from the stench and negative attitude. One thing does work in our favor, these zombies are also cannibals and that has been the most effective way of getting rid of them to date.

I guess something have changed a little. I see people much more quick to call the SJWs and certain feminists on their bullshit and not so afraid of the McCarthy Feminist Patrol (also known as skepchick)  That’s a good sign. And I see the good old slymepit is still happily smacking down the crap as it comes to the surfac… or are those rose petals? Brains…..

Rules are Hard

 

sos

 

PZ Myers is in the process of learning another life lesson-

New commenting rules

What are they?

The ongoing meltdown in Thunderdome and the departure of Chris tell me we’ve got something that needs to be fixed. I don’t quite know how to fix everything, so let’s crowdsource it — you people leave comments here telling me what rules you think might work to get the knifey-bitey-smashy atmosphere to lighten up a little. Just a little.

In other words- You guys have pretty much taken over my blog and I don’t have the slightest idea how to regain control without it looking like the Jonestown Massacre.

I don’t know about the rest of you but I have mixed feelings when I watch PZ go through this type of thing. On one hand it is amusing to see someone who deserves it realize they have made a mistake and have no way to resolve it. Another part of me feels relieved that PZ may finally stop a behavior that has been damaging to others not to mention his own dignity.   Then another part of me can’t help but wonder- How a man with his education, age, who has raised children can be so completely fuck dumb as to not see this problem coming or maybe take steps to stop it from occurring at all? It’s amazing.

Not only does PZ find himself held hostage by his commenters but he can’t think of a way to get control back so he asks……the people who are causing the problem. Suddenly PZ can’t figure out how to ban people? He can’t figure out what he accepts as proper/improper behavior? Who the fuck owns his blog anyways? An even better question is- Who does he allow to dictate what he considers acceptable behavior on his blog? He can’t figure it out himself? I’m guessing the minute he makes some rules and enforces those rules he is going to see his little horde dissipate because they won’t be able to handle rules. Maybe PZ realizes this also. Another perk of asking the crowd is that anyone who complains later can’t blame PZ, he didn’t make the rules. You readers made the rules so you can just live with ’em!

I suppose this is another instance where we should be relieved that PZ isn’t in a formal leadership position anywhere. I can see him telling a rioting crowd to come up with some ideas on how to better control itself

If PZ Myers wants a couple of suggestions that will get his comment section back in line with sanity I’ve got a couple.

1) No personal attacks/namecalling

2) limit comments to 3-5 per member per blog post. If there is a topic that has proven to encourage a interesting conversation then make an exception.

BONUS

(3) Grow a spine and treat people equally

These first two alone would get things under control in no time IF they were enforced. Despite PZ realizing there might be a problem with his comment section he is still light years away from understanding how or why he has this problem in the first place. Part of the reason for that is- It’s his own fault . He is to blame and he created the problem. Now that he created it and encouraged the behavior he now wants to stop, he can’t figure out on his own how to do it.

The world sure is a challenging place for PZ Myers isn’t it? It sure looks that way, poor fella.

Richard Carrier: Inept Idiot or Ignorant Simpleton?

This train wreck brought to you by...

This train wreck brought to you by…

Richard Carrier has aspired to have one of his letters to Penthouse printed for years. As of late he has become frustrated with the ongoing rejections he has received. Since Dick can’t get Penthouse to print him, his he posted this- Michael Shermer: Rapist or Sleaze?

Here is one portion-

Scenario A: You finally get to meet a big celebrity, for the first time, someone you really love and admire, and you’re at a party having drinks together, sitting at a table. He shows a lot of interest in you, asks you lots of questions, listens intently. Your conversation is so animated, in fact, his focus on you so engaging, that you don’t even notice that he keeps filling your wine glass, and you don’t realize how much you’ve had.
Then you start to feel you must have drunk too much, your vision is blurring and you feel a little dizzy. He shows concern, and offers to take you to your room. You get up and almost fall, you are having difficulty keeping upright. He supports you, and in his arms walks you to the elevator, and your room. You are really out of it and at this point can barely think straight and can’t navigate on your own. You have difficulty walking. At first you aren’t even sure it was your room he took you to.
He gets you to the bed and your head is swimming. You’re struggling not to pass out. You can’t speak coherently. He starts kissing and fondling you, then undressing you, then…everything else. You are too drunk to resist. And you are too surprised to speak. You just think to yourself, in a bit of shock… Oh. Okay. So this is happening. You never asked for it, and he never asked you if you did. It wasn’t even a subject you’d ever discussed or hinted at. And once it’s begun you aren’t sure how to stop it. You aren’t even thinking clearly enough to reason that out. You say something, but your speech is so slurred even you aren’t sure what you said. And before you get any idea of what to do, it’s over, and he leaves.
You lay there in the bed, stunned. The shock of what happened has sobered you up a little. You feel violated. You gather yourself up. You start crying. You finally get your head together and stumble out to report what just happened, visibly shaken as many witnesses can verify.

Why Dick feels like he needs to present this example, I don’t know. Does pretending something actually happened make it more true? Sure this kind of thing has happened but what does Richard Carrier’s imagined version have to do with actual events? An example maybe? An example of how Richard Carrier imagines something he never witnessed happened? The best reason I can come up with is his bitterness over the Penthouse rejection letters. Or maybe he is trying to jump on the same conjecture train PZ Myers had been riding up and down the rails.

 

Before I get too far ahead let’s look at some of Dick’s points, such as-

We should know the difference between anonymous authorship and unnamed sources

I agree, yes we should know the difference. Most people do. The problem here is lots of people do not trust PZ Myers cause he has taken his credibility and used it like a roll of toilet paper. He wipes his ass with it and then expects us to take it from him and say it smells like roses. It doesn’t smell like roses and I seriously doubt it ever will. If Dick Carrier can take toilet paper PZ has used, hold it to his nose, take a whiff of it, and have the same sensation as bringing his wife flowers on Valentines Day that’s nice for him. Most of what PZ says that isn’t directly related to his profession lacks credibility. I’m not saying everything he says is a lie but he has made mistakes when making claims about people’s actions, their character, and words in the past. PZ has never even shown an ability to acknowledge when he is wrong. Anyone who says that PZ has proven to be trustworthy and/or a reliable source in the past is clearly biased, tragically uninformed,  or just plain stupid. I’m sorry but there really is no other explanation.

Dick goes on-

We should also know the difference between criminal and civil standards of judgment; and between investigations and findings reached in a court to enforce public laws, and investigations and findings reached in private companies (for-profit and nonprofit, schools and hospitals, hotels and bars, banks and grocery stores) to enforce their own private conduct policies (e.g., you don’t have to be convicted in court to be banned from a campus for violating a school conduct policy, nor do you have to break any law for that, either).

First of all PZ Myers blog is not a civil court, a company, a school, or any other organization that has any standing. FTB is a bunch of people who know how to hit buttons on a keyboard. I guess Dick is okay with any group of people making any claim they think is credible about anyone as long as they say it is true. There is no need to hear all sides or get any details. There is no need to question or get the opinion of people who have no bias and are not involved in the matter. What  the hell do we even need lawyers for?  Someone says they were victimized, the accuser is known by a biologist with a popular blog, some other people say they have heard the same gossip,  the accused is guilty, case closed.

Does Dick think that the same method used by PZ to accuse Shermer is also used by companies and schools across the country to decide if someone was actually stealing  or if they actually cheated on a test? Well if that is true he should get out of the house more often. Sure an accusation can begin an investigation but it should be reported to responsible people who can check into it’s validity before punishing the accused. No every instance does not have to be decided in a courthouse but most reputable organizations follow a process that is similar to the one used by the court system because it is a good model. For Dick to gloss over that fact gives the impression he omitting important aspects in order to better support his bias.

Richard Carrier (Dick for short) then goes through and shares his fantasies about Michael Shermer’s sexual experiences.(see above) I think it’s safe to say that Dick Carrier has no idea if what he is writing is even remotely close to the truth. Unless he can travel back in time and make himself invisible so he can witness the events he wasn’t there so it all comes down to- A bunch of shit. Dick can write fictional stories. We can put him up there with other fictional writers like say…. L Ron Hubbard. Very impressive but not useful.

 

Dick continues on-

 But the preponderance of evidence (a civil court burden, whereby a claim need only have a better than 50% chance of being true, so even just a 50.1% chance of being true would win a case) is enough for me to conclude that the general picture is probably true: Shermer pursues sex with women a lot, both one-night stands and ongoing affairs, and he has often enough done so without telling his wife or his various girlfriends. His recent attempt to compel PZ Myers to retract his report of what a witness told him appeared to deny even this (that Shermer has lots of consensual trysts and affairs), which I think is disingenuous at this point.

At this point I think it is fair to ask Dick to make up his mind. Is he going to treat this as if PZ’s blog is a court of law (civil or otherwise) or is he going to claim that accepted legal procedures do not apply because it is not a court? You can’t have it both ways Dick. If we are to consider the comparison used above then it is important to note that in a civil case ALL SIDES OF THE ISSUE ARE HEARD BEFORE ANY JUDGEMENT.

How hard is it to understand? Richard Carrier is educated isn’t he? He is supposed to be intelligent. I’m sorry but this application of logic when it fits what you want to believe is exactly like the behavior of religious people. In their day to day life they apply a certain logic to everything they do because if they didn’t it would be almost impossible to function. When they consider religion a entirely different set of rules come into play because religion is different and isn’t subject to the kind of logic that allows you to function and stay alive in the world you actually live in.  Richard Carrier, PZ Myers, and all the other people who are using this emotional and/or flawed formula are doing the same thing.

I don’t know what the fuck has happened to Dick and PZ and all the other morons who want to try and convince us there is a public process which has no connection to the court system and it should be used to pronounce judgement on people accused of improper behavior or crimes. Sure there is a court of public opinion but people should be responsible when voicing their opinion.

Popular public personalities/figures should be aware that their opinion carries weight. When Jenny Mcarthy said

 The idea that vaccines are a primary cause of autism is not as crackpot as some might wish.

I would assume she thought she was telling the truth. She was incorrect though, the idea was based on completely useless or just plain made-up data. The doctor who had said there was a link was a crackpot. Jenny had given him credibility and we all know the damage that has been done due to her irresponsible behavior. She said it in an attempt to protect children much in the way PZ, Dick and others are claiming to be protecting women from rape. But at what cost? No matter how they want to twist and turn and selectively use examples the bottom line is they are accusing a man of breaking a serious law and they have portrayed him as guilty by way of hearsay, without allowing him to answer his accuser. In fact without allowing him to answer at all. Now that the accusation and presumption of guilt have been made he can not answer without legal council. He would be an idiot to do so, especially considering the types of buffoons he is dealing with here. We all want to know the truth but PZ the Clown has made that even more difficult by acting like a twit.

I’d really like anyone who also chooses to ride the PZ Myers conjecture express to imagine if it was them. Imagine if this was the typical process we used to find innocence /guilt. Even the court of public opinion doles out punishment. Punishment should be deserved. Whether it is deserved should depend  on fair unbiased people learning as much factual information about the issue as possible and listening to all sides in order to form and educated opinion about the how events occurred.

redflag

There is a big red flag here. This red flag has popped up time and time again when you read some posts at FTB. There is no link to an opposite point of view. If the writers were honest, thought they had a sound argument, and respected their readers enough to allow them to come to their own conclusions after hearing all sides, then they would give the reader a way to find that information. Whenever you don’t find a link to the original information or the opposing view being criticized, unless it is unavailable, then that is a red flag. This is an important point. There is usually a reason the other side isn’t being represented in some form and that reason is almost never good.

Divide and Conquer?

 


split

   I keep thinking PZ Myers will get it. One morning he will wake up, look in the mirror and have a sudden epiphany. He will finally realize that he doesn’t know everything and it’s been obvious to everyone the entire time. The hypocrisy he has displayed will give him a feeling of embarrassment that washes over him as if he had jumped into a pool of ice water. The character assassinations he has been guilty of will give him the same feeling of regret one would have after waking up naked on a park bench after a night of drinking. The name calling would cause him to imagine his dignity falling out of his body onto the floor wiggling around as if a pair of hands were grasping it and choking it to death until it withered into what resembled a dried up leaf and blew away. All the lies, bullshit, and excuses that seemed so clever at the time now are now revealed to him for what they really were, childish attempts to cover up behavior that should have been unthinkable. Suddenly he sees through the eyes of all the reasonable, rational people of the world and comes to the conclusion it is far past the time to shut the fuck up.

I couldn’t be more mistaken. Instead he offers this-This is not an update

Remember when Dick Carrier called for people to pick which side they wanted to be on? You were either A+ or you were less than A+. Dick stopped just short of calling for fighting in the streets. It took an overwhelming rejection of Dick and his dickish ideas on a youtube video of him at the 2013 American Atheist convention to drive the point home. It wasn’t easy to convince Dick he could be wrong. It is possible he is still convinced it’s all a bad dream and is just playing along until he wakes up and gets a chance to kick some non A+ ass.

Despite the public voting down the A+ rhetoric and ignoring calls to actively divide the atheist/skeptic community the first time around, PZ thinks it’s a good idea to make that call once again. Let me make sure you all understand what my point is- PZ Myers is actively calling for people to choose sides on a issue that has become the biggest dividing force among atheist/skeptic activists. Does anyone think this is a good suggestion? What kind of example are we if we can’t get along?

What rational, sane person would do this? What intelligent, educated adult makes such a childish public demand of people? In case PZ doesn’t know it there were already enough sides before he tried to force his ideology on all of us and condemn anyone who doesn’t agree completely with whatever he tells them to.

Sexual harassment? PZ says it is bad, bad, bad! The predatory habits of old white men must be stopped! They are running rampant and harassing women constantly! Oh, unless they do this…this is okay as long as your name is PZ.

In this case it was just a “joke”. Or the subject was reproduction, how else could PZ possibly make his point except by suggesting his volunteer make her way to his hotel room?

News flash PZ. I don’t think there is a company in the country that would be okay with the behavior demonstrated here and I’m not even going to mention the suggestion you make to the woman introducing you that she “dance” then you tell her to “go away”.  You dismiss her because you “have work to do”. The man has work to do. it doesn’t matter if it is a joke or not PZ it can still be harassment. If someone in the audience finds it offensive, it is harassment.

Before you keep on harping about people picking sides and warning them about people who may or may not be guilty of harassing women. You need to check your own behavior. You never even showed enough awareness to admit you were guilty of making a bad call when propositioning a woman on a stage in front of an entire conference. You think gossip is enough to say whatever you want about someone else cause we aren’t in a court of law. But when you are on video clearly behaving in a fashion just as bad as anyone you have been critical of if not worse it is no big deal. Who the fuck convinced you that you are better than anyone else? What makes your intentions pure but anyone else’s sinister? Because you were doing it in plain sight you couldn’t have had any improper intent?  Criminals have been known to claim that the best way to commit a crime is “in plain sight”  cause no one expects it and a great defense is “why would I commit a crime in plain sight? I’m not stupid”

Or we can follow the example PZ sets when it comes to compassion for rape victims. What kind of cold bastard would make a joke of rape? Well funny you asked, this kind.

I’m not sure what weak excuse PZ came up with for this crap but if I had to guess…I’d say…it was.. “Reap Paden is a ranting asshole”  that’s a logic embraced by “the horde of morons”. The screeching socially dysfunctional commenters  that reside in the Pharyngula basement will constantly dismiss any valid points because they don’t like the person making those points.

If any of those little feeble minded horders is reading this I’d like to inform them that calling people names, telling people to kill themselves, or using “shut the fuck up and go away”  to support your point doesn’t make your point any stronger and it doesn’t make you tough or intimidating. The Pharyngula comment section isn’t quite the model of a tough intelligent place where smart people don’t take any shit that you seem to see it as. What kind of people feel like they need to attack EVERY SINGLE instance of a person saying anything that doesn’t fit into your bubble? What is so hard about leaving people alone to voice their differing opinion and letting the reader make up their own mind?  The way you all give each other “virtual high fives” as you squash any and every contrasting opinion makes me embarrassed for you. The way you think it is an achievement when you verbally abuse another person for simply not sharing your point of view is a very sad commentary on your life. The way you belittle people who point out your petty and juvenile behavior is pitiful. You are like drunks who are trying to make fun of the guy who called you an alcoholic but you have trouble getting the words out due to the shakes. You end up laughing at your own joke but no one else could understand what the fuck you were saying so they just walk away slowly as you continue to try and high five each other and mumble insults. yet you still consider yourself some kind of force or threat. The only thing you are a threat to is yourselves. I can say that there has never been one single instance of my feeling anything close to threatened by any of ya. It’s laughable.

brokenA

 I’m not gonna pick a “side” the suggestion sounds childish, it’s just more from the playground bully. Even though I’ve come to expect as much from PZ I still have an optimistic hope for an epiphany.

 

Who gets the bill ?

6thamedment

I’m  watching the debate over the legal action that could be taken over PZ Myers’ blog post about Michael Shermer being guilty of what can be defined as rape. I have been looking into the  laws regarding libel and defamation. My interpretation of the law makes me think Shermer already has a case not only proving defamation but also damages resulting from it.But….

One comment on my last blog post got me thinking


HJ Hornbeck
Submitted on 2013/08/14 at 1:30 pm

I take it none of you have read the complaint, then? It claims to have strong evidence that Myers knew the allegations are false, but then makes some trivially inaccurate statements such as:

1. Carrie Poppy is a member of FtB.
2. The “Grenade” thread is the most popular thread on Pharyngula.

It reads as boilerplate legal intimidation, with no substance behind it. Why didn’t they reveal their proof that the allegations are false, right then and there? Why are they stringing us out? This complaint looks groundless, to a skeptical eye.

Groundless? I’m not sure if I would describe it like that. I will say if Shermer has no recourse on something like what PZ has posted then we have a bigger issue to consider. This will have/has had a negative effect on Michael Shermer’s reputation. No matter what happens now a level of damage has been done. Its not unreasonable to think it will effect his income also and that should not be allowed to happen. We have a court system and people have a right to defend themselves when accused of a crime. PZ is attempting to circumvent that system. All of us should hope that is not allowed to happen not only for Michael Shermer but for our own sake. Because this type of thing could happen to anyone whether you are smart enough to realize it or not.

PZ Myers should be ashamed. How can he not see what effect his actions have had? There is a clear pattern he has established. When PZ can not win a debate or when he is too lazy to even try he attacks a person’s character. This is no better than the Christian who starts calling you a satanist or sinner when they find out you don’t believe in god or the anti vaxer who calls you a retard because you don’t believe their theory. In fact it is far worse. I don’t care if someone calls me an asshole or even a ranting asshole. To be honest I probably am on occasion at least from the perspective of some people. There are people who think differently than me, I can deal with that. When someone calls me a racist then they are accusing me of judging someone based purely on the way they were born. That’s not an accurate description of my character and anyone who knows me will attest to that. While that is a cheap shot it isn’t really accusing someone of being guilty of a crime in most cases.

Up until recently that was the level PZ Myers had sunk to. He had been doing it to creationists for years and shame on us for laughing at the clown while he performed his circus act on people who may have deserved it in some cases but as it turns out we encouraged bad habits.

Now those bad habits have come back to bite us on the ass. Anyone who thinks this bullshit PZ has pulled on Shermer is okay because “he can handle it” due to his popularity or because he is a white male is living in a fantasy land. Plenty of lives, all kinds of lives, have been ruined by unfounded allegations just like PZ has made about Shermer.

Anyone who is comfortable with PZ making allegations of someone being guilty of rape the way he has needs to consider a few things. Are false accusations ever made against people? Is there anyone who hasn’t been accused of doing something they did not do? How did it make you feel? Did the person who accused you think they had evidence that proved you were guilty? What if you were never allowed to defend yourself or explain the circumstances involved?

If it is not made clear that we support due process and frown on individuals taking such matters into their own hands then we will likely see this happen again in the future. I even did the work for you so feel free to cut and paste. Maybe if we took a couple minutes to email PZ  about our concerns it would be helpful.

Attention PZ Myers- We have a Bill of Rights for a reason. You are not above the law of the land. There are far more responsible ways you could have dealt with the issue involving Mr Shermer and been fair to all parties. You have not been elected to any position that allows you to cast judgement as to whether others are guilty of any crime. Your failure to realize your blunder even in the face of so much outcry against it only proves my point that you are not competent enough to act responsibly or to realize when the circumstances require the assistance of people experienced in such matters. You obviously have no such experience or there would be no need for threat of legal action against you. Your actions are an abuse of the right to free speech and could be compared to shouting “fire!” in a crowded theater. In other words your actions have the potential to harm others. Please read with the documents this country was founded on and familiarize yourself with the basic rights we enjoy in this country. If you could also refrain from abusing those rights in the future it would be helpful on many levels. There has been enough conflict among a small portion of  atheists/skeptics up to this point and if you could attempt to address matters that concern you in responsible ways that will minimize un-needed dramatic effect it would set a good example for others. An effort to refrain from personal attacks on others could also be beneficial to those involved the atheist/skeptical “community”.

Thanks in advance

Signed-

Reasonable People 

Libelous


PZLIBELOUS

 Well seems that wishes do come true. After PZ Myers took it upon himself to say some nasty things about Michael Shermer. Mr Shermer answered PZ, well he didn’t actually answer himself, his lawyers did though. And since PZ has removed the post from his blog I figured I would make sure people get a chance to observe the smack he received upside the head. So here you go. …

shermerslawyerletter
shermer1


shermer2shermer3

shermer4

 

shermer6

 

Gotta like that. Will PZ learn anything from this? Probably not and you can’t teach common sense so we will probably see more stupid and/or irresponsible blabber coming from PZ in the future but in this case he got called on it. I’m glad Michael Shermer took care of business in an adult manner. Pity PZ can’t follow his example.

Small Battle Won

 

dungeonclosed

Closed- No apologies will be issued

   While talking with Ally Fogg from FTB this past week I brought up the dungeon. The dungeon was a page where PZ Myers would list the people he had banned from his blog in a strange childlike manner. It was like   looking at the notches on a belt. For every character assassination there was a name and the manner in which their character has been killed with libel by PZ.  Ally claimed no knowledge of it and after the conversation I wondered what the dungeon looked like since PZ was banning anyone who was associated with the slymepit and he claimed I had created more than 30 fake accounts then there should be quite a list. At least 30 names supposedly on account of me alone.

When I went to look….the dungeon was gone. How could this be? I wondered how, what , why? Could it be that PZ had finally seen the light and recognized his behavior was juvenile and unfair? Could we count on PZ to focus on real issues instead of the regular trashing of someone based on some paranoid delusion in PZ’s head?  Then I found this. It’s a post from June 10th 2013 called No More Mr. Nice Guy. (allow me to suggest PZ get someone to write his titles for him cause they usually make no sense)

After reading the post I was a little let-down. PZ never mentions how his dungeon may have been unfair  or a bad idea.

He says

So yes, I’m fed up and I’ll be taking stronger action against these trolls and other assholes. But that does not in any way imply that I’m silencing disagreement…but that’s the message the trolls and assholes want to send out, to foment more harassment.I don’t ban that many people, and those that I do kick out, I try to be open about it, listing their names on the Dungeon page. Which leads to the other lie: that I’m unusually censorious. It turns out that being transparent about necessary banning actions, while just about every other goddamn blog out there just invisibly disappears objectionable junk, leads these phonies to make up more lies about policies here.

So I’m also changing something else. The Dungeon is gone. From now on, if you’re a jerk, you just get zapped and disappear forever, with no documentation, just like it’s done on the blogs of the assholes who accuse me of banning people for disagreeing with me.
It’ll save me a little work, too.

It’s kinda strange cause the people PZ disagrees with are often referred to as “assholes”, “jerks” or “slymers” which are all also the same terms he uses when talking about the people he has banned. I wonder, could this be the cause of some of the confusion PZ claims there is among critics of his policies?  I think so. PZ needs to be more clear or admit that as soon as someone doesn’t choose to see things his way in what he considers a proper amount of time they are told to shut up. If that instruction is not followed then they are banned. PZ doesn’t ban you for disagreeing, he bans you for not shutting up about your disagreement and for not changing your mind to agree with him. (note: you can also be banned for saying uncomplimentary things about his “horde”)

PZ also says he will be taking “stronger action” against the trolls and assholes. I don’t know what action he is planning on taking since there really is very little he can do about people who are posting comments unless he starts to approve comments.

Now if we could get PZ Myers on board the “No personal attacks” train then we will be on our way to a more peaceful interaction between not just skeptics and atheists but with believers too. I think a good way to ease into that would be for PZ to start better controlling his comment section. In the past he has bragged about how tough his horde is when in actuality they are just mean and intent on hurting people.Very little of their content is valid counter arguments, it is mostly personal insults, playground caliber name calling and threats. The number of people who seem to use PZ’s comment section as a way to vent frustrations is disturbing.

After all is said and done even with PZ making a clear attempt pretend this is all just because he choose to do it and the motivation was all the lies being told about him…it is a win.

PZ did something right by taking the dungeon page down and I will give him credit for that. It’s still too bad it wasn’t done because PZ recognized it was unfair and wrong but at least he has been stopped from continuously misrepresenting people. Pressure from others was also a factor so there is hope.

Not only that but it saves me a little work too.

Side-note: People can quit assuming I am somehow ‘obsessed’ with PZ too since it took a month for me to notice he posted about the removal I obviously don’t pay nearly the attention he claims I do. Sorry PZ, wrong about me again buddy, keep trying.

 

 

Oh-boycott

sadrebeccaIn case you haven’t heard enough of Rebecca Watson telling you what to do she is at it again here. She is pissed that a white male is allowed to have a voice. Even though he spoke about a legitimate issue involving feminism. It wasn’t what she wanted to talk about and most importantly  it wasn’t said by the gender she wanted to see/hear talking about it. How can anyone call themselves a skeptic and be so obviously biased? Follow that with the fact she is so ignorant of her own bias she parades it around screaming and pointing at it without even realizing it.

The Center For Inquiry issued a statement that supported Ron Lindsay and it is straight to the point. Rebecca can’t understand how it is possible to make a point by being clear and leaving out any rhetoric. She thinks that you need to draw things out , you need to insult people, build some resentment. Rebecca prefers to be vague so people might take your point the wrong way and then you can slam them and tell them how stupid they are. She likes to make it sound like people who disagree with her believe in the exact opposite. Kinda like the way religious people will reply to someone who says they don’t believe in god. “Oh your one of them satanists then huh?”  because simple people need to think in simple terms. If you don’t like steak you are a vegetarian. You don’t drink? You are a recovering alcoholic. You aren’t a feminist? You hate women. See? Simple. To consider there are many different perspectives or maybe there is more than one way to solve a problem is too much trouble. You can’t judge people if you are trying to understand where they are coming from. Besides, where is the drama in that ? I imagine Rebecca would have liked to see CFI  reply with a statement that looked more like this-

Rebecca Watson’s Center for Inquiry Board of Directors Statement on the CEO and the Rebecca Watson Women in Secularism 2 Conference

The mission of the Rebecca Watson Center for Inquiry is to foster a secular feminist society based on Rebecca Watson, science, freedom of inquisition , Rebecca Watson, and feminist values.

The Rebecca Watson Center for Inquiry, unincluding its CEO whether he likes it or not, is dedicated to advancing the status of Rebecca Watson, women and promoting Rebecca Watson’s issues, and this was the motivation for Rebecca Watson’s sponsorship of the two Rebecca Watson Women in Secularism conferences. The CFI Board & Rebecca Watson wishes to express its unhappiness with all men especially white men except PZ MYERS (cause he is the one man who ‘gets us’ ) at the recent Women in Secularism Conference 2.

Rebecca Watson & CFI believes in respectful debate and dialogue in other places maybe but not here. We appreciate worship Rebecca Watson and the many insights and varied opinions communicated to us by her. Going forward, Rebecca Watson will endeavor to work with all elements of the secular movement to force our her values on them and strengthen our solidarity as we struggle together for full equality and then some for only women around the world.

But…that didn’t happen. So now she is calling for a boycott of CFI. She is not going to do anymore to support them especially because they haven’t invited her to. Rebecca here is a little something you should know. You can’t quit a job after you get fired. Maybe keep that in mind if you ever get a job. Unless you have one now , I’m not sure cause you never seem to talk much about any actual work you’ve done.

Maybe you could get a job looking after  PZ’s  ‘horde’. you know cleaning out the cages and putting the hose on ’em every so often. Patting them on the head whenever some son of a bitch doesn’t give them a trigger warning and they melt down. ….just a thought.

Rebecca goes on to cry about the harassment she keeps getting and finally we see an example of the extreme hatred

How could anyone dare suggest Rebecca lives in another universe? Is there no end to the vile behavior Rebecca must endure?!  If this is the current level of ‘hate’ she is getting and it still is too much I hope she stays away from playgrounds and catholic schools cause the shit that goes on in those places is off the hook!

I’d like to hear, just once,  Rebecca make a plea to people asking for them to try and find common ground or to be less confrontational. What would have happened if Rebecca would have released her own statement a while back. Maybe something like this –

“Look, I can see there is a huge problem that seems to be doing harm to atheists and skeptics. I’m outspoken and I can see how I could have maybe just a little contributed to this problem. I’d like to help fix it by making some things clear- I’d like to tell all the people who are making actual threats towards me- I’m calling the cops. Those of you who are all talk – STFU cause I don’t give a shit. Every single shit message you send gets deleted, your time wasted. Thanks for spending some of your limited time on earth  thinking of me, I’m flattered. To all the reasonable people including the ones who disagree- Let’s focus on the things we agree on and by working together maybe we will come to understand where each of us is coming from. We are going to have arguments and fights but let’s realize when we have taken it to the point where no one benefits  except the people we both disagree with and that means we all lose.

Or we can just build a list of people/groups who don’t do what we want and withdraw support until we are only supporting skepticism by donating time to…well there isn’t anyone who does things exactly like we would do them ourselves so where does that leave us?

Rebecca, thanks for all your work to help make the world a place where skeptics don’t tolerate opposing opinions and no one supports rational thought and drama is favored over rational debate. Your contribution is noted.

David Silverman In Wonderland

David Silverman, the current president of American Atheists was invited to and agreed (after some haggling) to be a guest on the Brave Hero podcast which is hosted by Justin Vacula (va-cool-a) and Karla Porter (chill-g-rll) I know them both and have found them to be honest and they both tend to take a more formal (professional) approach towards conflict. That podcast took place on June, 15 2013. David was invited to further discuss issues raised in a twitter conversation with Justin. These are my thoughts on that podcast and some related interaction I have had.

ftb

Freethought Blogs -We fail with more than just words

Before I talk about the Brave Hero podcast I’ll give you a little background on my interaction with David to be open and honest about things. I’ve had David Silverman on my podcast as a guest, I’ve had a couple conversations with him in person. I’ve had an ongoing conversation with him in the last week in private messages about the conflict that has been ongoing between atheist/skeptics and FTB/A+/skepchick poser skeptics. Nothing extensive, David didn’t seem to have many facts about Justin Vacula and his role in the conflict so I figured he would appreciate being better informed. That way he could form a fair opinion based on truths.

David was more than happy to discuss the issue with me but insisted I was associated with “the shit”. He wasn’t nearly as interested in listening to what I had to say as he was in getting me to understand his version of the conflict. It was as if I was just making things up. At times it was like I had said nothing at all. David just walked by facts as if they were not even there, he didn’t even stumble over them a little. It is like David doesn’t need any facts or details, he has the answers already.

So David agrees to appear on Brave Hero radio after he and Justin Vacula (vac-cool-a) had a dispute over Justin denouncing what David refers to as “the shit”. I’m not sure what “the shit” is exactly. So far, “the shit” seems to be defined as stuff that David calls “the shit”. That is as clear a definition as any David has offered (which is none/nothing/nada)

David dives in right at the start and you can hear the condescension immediately. When asked for some examples of what it is exactly David thinks is “the shit” in the atheist community he replies that he doesn’t need to provide any examples.  David then goes on to point out that there is no way for men to know what it is like to be a woman. It is one of the few valid points that David makes, the problem is Justin has not made the demand that women shut up  or claimed to know better what it’s like to be a woman than even women do. Never once have I heard him even come close to either of those things.

David gives me the impression that he thinks it is his place to scold Justin “to help make him a better activist”. If being a better activist means over-talking the host when on a podcast or steamrolling over another person during conversation then David Silverman is the best activist I’ve ever seen. PZ Myers calls me a ranting asshole? At least I can get my facts straight. David has a problem with that. He also seems to be hung up on a few catch phrases. “Go fuck a knife” is one “You are too ugly to be raped” is another. David also seems to be under the impression that fake twitter accounts are a major factor in people leaving atheist activism. He gives Jennifer McCreight as an example of someone who was forced out. From my understanding Jennifer has some issues that contributed to her leaving that had nothing to do with fake twitter accounts. I’m not sure what David thinks is going to result from something called ‘boobquake’ when it goes viral but if he expects the world to mind it’s manners when it comes to boobs he is living in a fantasy land. I’m not saying it is acceptable behavior but people should accept the fact men are often pigs who say rude things to women, it is going to happen.

David  continues to insist that Justin act with professionalism. I’m left wondering what would happen if say if Justin took David’s example for professionalism and embraced it. Would yelling over people and using vague undefined terms while he making false accusations and ranting about things he knows absolutely nothing about be a better approach than offering to discuss issues in a open public forum without personal attacks? I think any mature intelligent adult would say no to even suggest such a thing is shit.

David Silverman repeatedly dodges any attempts to point out how his relationships are just like the ones he is calling Justin on. PZ Myers has behaved in incredibly irresponsible ways. PZ should consider changing his legal name to Libel Lyers (nice ring) at this point.  I can’t believe David is totally ignorant to the  actions and words coming from PZ or the number of people he has pissed off because he isn’t willing to accept people as allies. He makes it quite clear he has no use for people who disagree with him or his attempts to force a certain mindset be accepted by atheists.

I get the fact that David Silverman is probably sick of the petty fighting, he is sick of the childish and chickenshit attacks on women. Let it be known I am tired of it too. There were things I thought I could count on from people who were skeptics and atheists as a general rule. I have learned a lesson. People, all types of people have the potential to act like fucking childish, self centered, judgmental, hyper-sensitive,  humorless, biased, idiots. I will no longer underestimate anyone’s ability to fit that description. I will however wait for them to fit the description before I apply it to them. Until then they get a basic deserved respect from me by default. They get the benefit of the doubt. I will also always be willing to settle any differences by talking to people. I will not sit on my hands and watch as religion is replaced by  something just as dangerous hidden under a veil of someone’s righteous ideology.

I am bothered by David Silverman’s behavior. As I have said before I had respect for him but I can not respect his actions in this case given I know for a fact he knew better. Here is my direct reply to him just  so no one gets it twisted.-

    David, I gave you examples of things that were done/said to me that are far more damaging than any Photoshop of FTB bloggers holding We (heart) Justin signs. There are dozens and dozens of examples on the net of other people with the same stories. You were deliberately deceptive in your conversation with Justin about association. Do you think he or anyone else doesn’t know that?

I made that Photoshop David and it was for a reason. Those people, just about EVERY SINGLE ONE in that photo suggested he not attend or even attempted to keep Justin from attending that conference. That is wrong and for you to be critical of Justin for trying to make light of actions that are sickening and juvenile demonstrates a clear favoritism on your part.

     Justin DID NOT post Surly Amy’s address on purpose. I was in contact with Justin during that event. He never wanted to attack Amy in any way. He was trying to defend himself. He posted the address by accident. He got chewed out for his mistake as soon as he made it by myself and others. It was a stupid mistake. For you to accuse him of malice is bullshit. Listen closely-I WAS THERE. YOU ARE WRONG.
Who do you think you are fooling David? Do you really think anyone who knows anything about this is going to have any respect for you after hearing your skewed version of events? There are 600+ members of the slymepit, you gave the impression that you think they are all making rape threats, that isn’t even close to true. To say they are all “shit” is just dumb.

       A couple of isolated comments by someone with a 12 year old maturity level are not a solid base for your argument. You are the shit in this instance David. You are full of shit, you are spreading shit, and you have stepped in shit. You can’t even define your own term. At one point you told Justin to own his own ownership? Really? I had a lot of respect for you David, I thought you would be at least fair, shit I thought you would at least be civil. You couldn’t even have a conversation, you had to try and intimidate Justin. What if he responds in the same manner as you have to him? I’m sorry I was mistaken and I’m embarrassed for you David.

 

One of the high points of the podcast was the chat. Someone under the name PZ Myers was part of the conversation. I have reason to believe it was him because I can’t think of anyone else who would claim to be even in jest. Could it be PZ finally gained the testicular fortitude to venture out from his protected little den infested by the inept horde and stepped into the real world? I will give him credit for that if it is the case. I will also note he was up to his same old tricks blabbering away as if his psychic powers allow him to know me and what I am thinking at all times. Claiming that my responses to his attacks on my character are reason to dismiss anything I may have to say. If you are reading this PZ keep in mind what I told you in the chat. It would do you wonders to chill the fuck out and listen to people just for a little while instead of treating them like shit for daring to disagree. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you it doesn’t make them wrong.

Here is a link to the Brave Hero podcast 

Here is a link to the chat,( highly recommended reading )

 

Note- As this is posted David has responded to my last message. While we still have major differences in opinion. It should be noted that David Silverman is willing to continue to discuss those differences in a respectful manner. If I am going to criticize I must also be able to acknowledge reasonable behavior and willingness to at least try and find common ground. After the reasoned, respectable behavior we have seen from slymepitters who have been in discussion with Stephanie Zvan.  I wonder what will be said when it is proven that people who are part of the slymepit are not  hateful monsters after all. Time will tell, I hope some people are ready to put their social justice feet where their mouths are.

I will be following up on this, trust me.

PZ Myers PLEASE Get A Fucking Clue

 

PZ gives his best answer

PZ gives his best answer

So I try to avoid PZ Myers comment section. Between that angry bitter hater of life Caine de Flop, brownian the master of self doxxing (see here) and crying like a baby and the rest of the uninformed dolts that reside in there I can feel my IQ drop as I read their fictional version of events. The only thing being horded in there is ignorance.

Since Ophelia Benson is doing everything possible to avoid anyone paying attention to her by threatening to make public the name of a commenter who dared tell her to “get some help” (good advice IMO) I found myself checking out the contribution PZ has made to the latest self-made drama.

As I wade through the attempts to justify what is obviously wrong behavior on Ophelia’s part and the random incorrect accusation that I somehow provided brownian’s real name to the public, which never happened unless K is his last name. I only learned that much because of brownian providing it. In fact brownian outed himself (see here)

Brownian, OM

December 16, 2008

AnthonyK, that’s funny! I have to cancel out the Rev. BDC’s typos lest the universe annihilate itself.

Incidentally, I’m also an Anthony K in RL, so it kinda freaks me out when I see your name!

(That, and I’m a teensy bit baked. Uh-oh. Munchies. I’m gonna go put rosemary on something and eat it.)

 As if that wasn’t enough I also see someone ask a question

iiandyiiii

29 May 2013 at 1:36 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’ve been reading PZ’s blog almost every day for the past year or so, but I still don’t understand the basics of this ongoing debate/feud/flame war/whatever between (as far as I can tell) pro-feminist atheists like PZ and anti-feminist atheists… it seems like it started quite a while ago, and (again, as far as I can tell) every post seems to refer to past events that I’m not aware of. Is there a “sum up” post somewhere, or can someone just sum it up for me?

PZ Myers, being a wealth of information and ready to provide complete bullshit on demand jumps to answer like this-

29 May 2013 at 1:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

There is no summary. There’s a faction that detests feminism, really hates women like Rebecca Watson who get all uppity and point out gender inequities, and they’ve gone on a two year long temper tantrum of irrational gibberish, photoshop games, misrepresentation, fuming about anti-harassment policies, and calling us ‘cunts’ and ‘manginas’, among other colorful sex-based slurs. The good thing is that all the assholes have conveniently decamped to a place called the slymepit where they spend all their time whining about FtB and Skepchicks.

I can hardly find the words to describe my feelings about this reply from PZ. I will attempt it though….WHAT THE FUCK?! Where does PZ Myers live ? Does he even try to pay attention?  How can he describe the bullshit he has played a major part in causing like this? I can’t lay all the blame on PZ but holy shit reality must be a tiny little dot in whatever sky it is  PZ sees when he looks up. This isn’t even close to accurate. If he does think this is true or even if he doesn’t and is just saying it in order to prevent another person from learning- PZ is delusional and disconnected from the real events and opinions of others. I can’t believe even his comment section would let that  pass……guess what? It has gone unchallenged as of the time of this post….. we have a serious problem.