Tag Archives: richard carrier

Richard Carrier: Inept Idiot or Ignorant Simpleton?

This train wreck brought to you by...

This train wreck brought to you by…

Richard Carrier has aspired to have one of his letters to Penthouse printed for years. As of late he has become frustrated with the ongoing rejections he has received. Since Dick can’t get Penthouse to print him, his he posted this- Michael Shermer: Rapist or Sleaze?

Here is one portion-

Scenario A: You finally get to meet a big celebrity, for the first time, someone you really love and admire, and you’re at a party having drinks together, sitting at a table. He shows a lot of interest in you, asks you lots of questions, listens intently. Your conversation is so animated, in fact, his focus on you so engaging, that you don’t even notice that he keeps filling your wine glass, and you don’t realize how much you’ve had.
Then you start to feel you must have drunk too much, your vision is blurring and you feel a little dizzy. He shows concern, and offers to take you to your room. You get up and almost fall, you are having difficulty keeping upright. He supports you, and in his arms walks you to the elevator, and your room. You are really out of it and at this point can barely think straight and can’t navigate on your own. You have difficulty walking. At first you aren’t even sure it was your room he took you to.
He gets you to the bed and your head is swimming. You’re struggling not to pass out. You can’t speak coherently. He starts kissing and fondling you, then undressing you, then…everything else. You are too drunk to resist. And you are too surprised to speak. You just think to yourself, in a bit of shock… Oh. Okay. So this is happening. You never asked for it, and he never asked you if you did. It wasn’t even a subject you’d ever discussed or hinted at. And once it’s begun you aren’t sure how to stop it. You aren’t even thinking clearly enough to reason that out. You say something, but your speech is so slurred even you aren’t sure what you said. And before you get any idea of what to do, it’s over, and he leaves.
You lay there in the bed, stunned. The shock of what happened has sobered you up a little. You feel violated. You gather yourself up. You start crying. You finally get your head together and stumble out to report what just happened, visibly shaken as many witnesses can verify.

Why Dick feels like he needs to present this example, I don’t know. Does pretending something actually happened make it more true? Sure this kind of thing has happened but what does Richard Carrier’s imagined version have to do with actual events? An example maybe? An example of how Richard Carrier imagines something he never witnessed happened? The best reason I can come up with is his bitterness over the Penthouse rejection letters. Or maybe he is trying to jump on the same conjecture train PZ Myers had been riding up and down the rails.

 

Before I get too far ahead let’s look at some of Dick’s points, such as-

We should know the difference between anonymous authorship and unnamed sources

I agree, yes we should know the difference. Most people do. The problem here is lots of people do not trust PZ Myers cause he has taken his credibility and used it like a roll of toilet paper. He wipes his ass with it and then expects us to take it from him and say it smells like roses. It doesn’t smell like roses and I seriously doubt it ever will. If Dick Carrier can take toilet paper PZ has used, hold it to his nose, take a whiff of it, and have the same sensation as bringing his wife flowers on Valentines Day that’s nice for him. Most of what PZ says that isn’t directly related to his profession lacks credibility. I’m not saying everything he says is a lie but he has made mistakes when making claims about people’s actions, their character, and words in the past. PZ has never even shown an ability to acknowledge when he is wrong. Anyone who says that PZ has proven to be trustworthy and/or a reliable source in the past is clearly biased, tragically uninformed,  or just plain stupid. I’m sorry but there really is no other explanation.

Dick goes on-

We should also know the difference between criminal and civil standards of judgment; and between investigations and findings reached in a court to enforce public laws, and investigations and findings reached in private companies (for-profit and nonprofit, schools and hospitals, hotels and bars, banks and grocery stores) to enforce their own private conduct policies (e.g., you don’t have to be convicted in court to be banned from a campus for violating a school conduct policy, nor do you have to break any law for that, either).

First of all PZ Myers blog is not a civil court, a company, a school, or any other organization that has any standing. FTB is a bunch of people who know how to hit buttons on a keyboard. I guess Dick is okay with any group of people making any claim they think is credible about anyone as long as they say it is true. There is no need to hear all sides or get any details. There is no need to question or get the opinion of people who have no bias and are not involved in the matter. What  the hell do we even need lawyers for?  Someone says they were victimized, the accuser is known by a biologist with a popular blog, some other people say they have heard the same gossip,  the accused is guilty, case closed.

Does Dick think that the same method used by PZ to accuse Shermer is also used by companies and schools across the country to decide if someone was actually stealing  or if they actually cheated on a test? Well if that is true he should get out of the house more often. Sure an accusation can begin an investigation but it should be reported to responsible people who can check into it’s validity before punishing the accused. No every instance does not have to be decided in a courthouse but most reputable organizations follow a process that is similar to the one used by the court system because it is a good model. For Dick to gloss over that fact gives the impression he omitting important aspects in order to better support his bias.

Richard Carrier (Dick for short) then goes through and shares his fantasies about Michael Shermer’s sexual experiences.(see above) I think it’s safe to say that Dick Carrier has no idea if what he is writing is even remotely close to the truth. Unless he can travel back in time and make himself invisible so he can witness the events he wasn’t there so it all comes down to- A bunch of shit. Dick can write fictional stories. We can put him up there with other fictional writers like say…. L Ron Hubbard. Very impressive but not useful.

 

Dick continues on-

 But the preponderance of evidence (a civil court burden, whereby a claim need only have a better than 50% chance of being true, so even just a 50.1% chance of being true would win a case) is enough for me to conclude that the general picture is probably true: Shermer pursues sex with women a lot, both one-night stands and ongoing affairs, and he has often enough done so without telling his wife or his various girlfriends. His recent attempt to compel PZ Myers to retract his report of what a witness told him appeared to deny even this (that Shermer has lots of consensual trysts and affairs), which I think is disingenuous at this point.

At this point I think it is fair to ask Dick to make up his mind. Is he going to treat this as if PZ’s blog is a court of law (civil or otherwise) or is he going to claim that accepted legal procedures do not apply because it is not a court? You can’t have it both ways Dick. If we are to consider the comparison used above then it is important to note that in a civil case ALL SIDES OF THE ISSUE ARE HEARD BEFORE ANY JUDGEMENT.

How hard is it to understand? Richard Carrier is educated isn’t he? He is supposed to be intelligent. I’m sorry but this application of logic when it fits what you want to believe is exactly like the behavior of religious people. In their day to day life they apply a certain logic to everything they do because if they didn’t it would be almost impossible to function. When they consider religion a entirely different set of rules come into play because religion is different and isn’t subject to the kind of logic that allows you to function and stay alive in the world you actually live in.  Richard Carrier, PZ Myers, and all the other people who are using this emotional and/or flawed formula are doing the same thing.

I don’t know what the fuck has happened to Dick and PZ and all the other morons who want to try and convince us there is a public process which has no connection to the court system and it should be used to pronounce judgement on people accused of improper behavior or crimes. Sure there is a court of public opinion but people should be responsible when voicing their opinion.

Popular public personalities/figures should be aware that their opinion carries weight. When Jenny Mcarthy said

 The idea that vaccines are a primary cause of autism is not as crackpot as some might wish.

I would assume she thought she was telling the truth. She was incorrect though, the idea was based on completely useless or just plain made-up data. The doctor who had said there was a link was a crackpot. Jenny had given him credibility and we all know the damage that has been done due to her irresponsible behavior. She said it in an attempt to protect children much in the way PZ, Dick and others are claiming to be protecting women from rape. But at what cost? No matter how they want to twist and turn and selectively use examples the bottom line is they are accusing a man of breaking a serious law and they have portrayed him as guilty by way of hearsay, without allowing him to answer his accuser. In fact without allowing him to answer at all. Now that the accusation and presumption of guilt have been made he can not answer without legal council. He would be an idiot to do so, especially considering the types of buffoons he is dealing with here. We all want to know the truth but PZ the Clown has made that even more difficult by acting like a twit.

I’d really like anyone who also chooses to ride the PZ Myers conjecture express to imagine if it was them. Imagine if this was the typical process we used to find innocence /guilt. Even the court of public opinion doles out punishment. Punishment should be deserved. Whether it is deserved should depend  on fair unbiased people learning as much factual information about the issue as possible and listening to all sides in order to form and educated opinion about the how events occurred.

redflag

There is a big red flag here. This red flag has popped up time and time again when you read some posts at FTB. There is no link to an opposite point of view. If the writers were honest, thought they had a sound argument, and respected their readers enough to allow them to come to their own conclusions after hearing all sides, then they would give the reader a way to find that information. Whenever you don’t find a link to the original information or the opposing view being criticized, unless it is unavailable, then that is a red flag. This is an important point. There is usually a reason the other side isn’t being represented in some form and that reason is almost never good.

Richard Carrier….rejected

  richardthumbdown

 

So  Richard Carrier gave a talk at the American Atheist convention in Austin….the fallout continues. It is amazing  the severe meltdown and the cutting of the ties to reality Richard Carrier is going through over the downvotes his presentation has acquired on youtube.  Am I being overly dramatic? Look for yourself  Atheism…Plus What?  The first few comments are enough to see what I’m talking about. If you get to Oolon’s comment you have gone one too far. Don’t bother. Since Oolon is the only person on the planet who is blocked from this blog comment section I won’t trash talk him, there is always twitter for that.

Anyway…..The lengths Richard goes to in order to defend his presentation is embarrassing. It’s like when we were kids and we played cops and robbers. There was always that one kid who never went down when he got shot. You would have your finger right up his nose and yell “BANG! YOU’RE DEAD!” and the kid would reply “You missed!” and then run off with the bank’s money like a criminal zombie with a gunshot wound to the head. Over and over Richard has faced fingers pointed right between his eyes and he just keeps yelling “YOU MISSED ME!”

It’s painful to watch. Richard is perfectly childlike in the way he avoids facing the fact he could, dare I say it? Be mistaken???! At the time of this post his video is at 18,129 total views with 654 upvotes and  4338 downvotes. Richard has been pulling out all the stops though. Actually spending time to ‘answer’ some of the commenters. This has not done him any good, in fact it seems to have brought to the surface some personality traits that Richard may want to focus on if he should ever decide to see a therapist.

There is an excellent reply to Richard Carrier by which can be found here

   However, like I said , Richard is having none of it.  After Thunderf00t posts a video explaining some of the problems with Richards presentation the reply to it is  this Is Thunderf00t a Sociopath?

Richard Carrier starts out with the usual character assassination that FTB are now known for and continues to make assumptions through the entire post. Richard Carrier has become just another over dramatic actor in the dispute among skeptics.  Richards attack on Thunderf00t is met with a reply.  If Richard Carrier was really as bright as some people say he is he would shut the hell up and go hide out for a while

   Over and over again Richard has been handed his ass on a platter. Over and over Richard lifts the lid and then slams it back down and starts yelling at his server.

  PZ Myers of course had to put in his $.02 and as usual it is way overvalued, so much so I’m not even going to link it.  PZ Myers is more out of touch than Carrier when it comes to reality and social interaction. PZ also lives in a state that ranks at the bottom third when it comes to diversity so in his bubble of course it’s going to look like minorities are not being included. Maybe he should concentrate on getting his own state to be more welcoming to minorities then he can start bragging about he knows better than anyone else.

  I guess the moral of the story is some people just can’t ever accept they are wrong and PZ Myers is always going to be a dick….Oh and I told you so Richard. Months ago when you first tried to separate the atheists/skeptics with your us vs. them bullshit. Which is EXACTLY what you did so stop telling lies.

 I’ll leave you with one of my latest video replies to the skeptics posers

Get A Clue

 

 

clue-2-Recovered

And the game goes on..

Richard Carrier gave a talk at the American Atheist convention on A+.

  When I first heard Richard had given a talk on A+ I wasn’t surprised. I felt a little bad for him cause I knew he had done himself, or his dignity, at least a little bit of harm.  As of this posting the video has 9,682 views with 464 upvotes and 1,373 downvotes. Of course you can’t just by default say that proves much except when you read the comments you can see where the problem is with A+. It’s not so much the idea itself as it is the behaviors of the people who support it that killed it.

Richard says in his blog

Video of my talk at the 2013 American Atheists Convention (their 50th anniversary!) is now online. It is getting downvotes from the haters (even at one point more downs than ups). Please go watch that video (Atheism…Plus What?) and see if you can find anything in it that honestly deserves a downvote. Seriously. And if you don’t, please upvote it. Show the haters they don’t own the movement.

Others reading the comments (I can’t stomach such a task myself) tell me that the downvotes appear to be coming from people who didn’t even watch the video (or didn’t watch it all through). It appears, in fact, that these downvotes are there in an attempt to discourage people from watching the video, rather than representing disagreement with its actual content or quality or value.

Actually there is very little comment coming from people who seem uninformed on the subject. I think maybe the people who are describing the comments to Richard are trying to spare his feelings. That’s nice of them but not helpful. Richard needs a little reality check IMO. Maybe if Richard would actually take 5-7 minutes of his precious time to read the comment section he would get a better idea of why people don’t like his idea. The fact of the matter is there is plenty of information and public opinion available to figure out what the majority of people think about A+ and Richard Carrier’s version of it.

To say Richard Carrier is out of touch would be an understatement . Richard Carrier is more likely to reach out and touch the moon than he is to understand what A+ has done and what it has become.  It has become a non-issue. The A+ forum was a joke. Between the call to run out all them bad atheists and the demands everyone conform to a certain set of behaviors it never stood a chance. Look at the shit we had to go through just to make it so blacks could go to the same schools as whites, or what we are going through now just to allow people who love each other to make a life long commitment to that relationship.  Those are issues that should be very simple to figure out yet we have had to fight to get them accepted and there are still people today who don’t get it , those battles are not won. Some of the things that the A+ forum expected were never going to fly and they didn’t even get off the ground. It became a bunch of victims trying to make victims of others because they  thought boys and girls were two different genders.

There are still some things we need to work on of course. Feminism defined as women having the same rights and privileges as men needs to succeed and I am convinced it will because it makes sense and it benefits everyone.  There will always be some differences in what roles are preferred by each gender in society. As long as no one is being kept out or forced into then we should leave well enough alone. Just because there are more men than women or women than men active in something does not mean we need to take immediate actions and force a  50-50 split on it.

Richard is a busy guy. he has made that point over and over again on his blog. I would suggest that if Richard can not keep up with the facts about the subjects he chooses to speak about in public as if he was an authority on it, then he should leave it to people who have some knowledge of the subject. It is clear Richard does not have a good grasp  A+ and the effect it has had on atheists/skeptics.

Richard tries to provide a defense/explanation of his position by suggesting people listen to an interview he did with Tony Sobrado. You can find the post here.

I left the following comment on that interview-
My opinion after listening to the 15 of available audio is that Mr Carrier is in over his head. As much as he has contributed in other ways to atheism, dealing with social issues is not one of his strengths. Judging from the way he answers comments to his blogs Richard has an ego problem and needs to get over himself. Assuming you already know all the answers is a flawed position to start from and Richard Carrier should be well aware of that fact. If it was all as simple as he makes it out to be then the problem would have been solved way before Richard and the rest of the A+ crowd came along. Suggesting it is productive to avoid interacting with those who do not share your point of view also shows an ignorance of how progress has been made on social issues up to now. When you have something in common with other people you should build from that, not ignore that commonality and instead focus on finding what it is you can use to chastise  those people about.

There has been a considerable amount of pushback against people like PZ Myers, Adam Lee, Stephanie Zvan, and Ophelia Benson (and others)  and it’s not always because they are wrong on their original points. It is because of the way they present those points and the way they automatically condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them and then when those people try to defend themselves against unfair judgements they are even more evil. Not only do they disagree with the original point, they are actively fighting against it now. How could those people be so evil and feel so much hate for women and minorities??! There isn’t any hate accept for the bias being demonstrated against them by people who claim to be all inclusive. They aren’t being reasonable, and they arent being fair. If you don’t believe me then take a look at the response from commenters to my apology to Stephanie Zvan on her blog.

There was no way I could win. If I didn’t apologize , I was a sexist jerk. When I did apologize it wasn’t worded correctly, or it wasn’t in enough places, or it wasn’t quick enough or my favorite- I just didn’t mean it. When you try to do the right thing and get a load of bullshit back in response to it what do you think is going to happen in the future? I did what I thought needed to be done. I directed my apology to Stephanie because that is who I was talking to. Anyone who has anything to say about it can suck it. It’s really none of their business. I don’t even know if Stephanie has accepted my apology since I can feel my IQ drop as I read through the comments on her blog. She may have addressed it, I don’t expect she would post about it like she did when I wronged her it seldom works like that. Although if I were to hear Adam Lee or PZ Myers even suggest they were maybe a bit unfair about some of the claims they made about myself, or anyone else, I would acknowledge their attempt to correct an injustice. I don’t think you’ll be reading about that anytime soon.