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If all churches disappeared tomorrow...
sheeple would be better off. sheeple would be better off. 0%[0 Votes]
sheeple would promptly create new ones. sheeple would promptly create new ones. 100%[3 Votes]
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The Human Condition
comfortable1949
Been gone for a while. Granddaughter's 14 now.
Old and creaky (I'll be 69 in December), with some interesting medical conditions!

I read my dad's letter recently; the one he wrote in 1992 just before the surgery that took him from us.
He pontificates on God and how we should be good people.
It was a bunch of crap, but I miss him anyhow.

Got to writing my own letter to my kids and grandkids to be read after I leave....
Dad's was 2-1/2 pages
Mine's 85.

In it, I didn't rail about 'religion' - instead I honestly shared that I cannot understand people who are happy with the idea that they are 'saved' while the rest of us are going to Hell. Pretty mean-spririted, I think.

SO,

Since there's been much typing about this religion or that, what some sanctimonious hypocrite was caught doing this week....(which I found interesting at first, but not after the 5,000th example)...I've started focusing on believers instead. Not WHAT they believe, but WHY they feel compelled to believe such self-contradictory ideas (i.e. Jesus died for us, he rose from the dead 3 days later. In what sense did he die for me? He 'paid for our sins' by his crucifiction. I'll pay you $8,000 for your used car. If I take my money back in 3 days, did I pay for your car?)

I view religion as a symptom of the human condition, not the cause. I think if people didn't have a king or chief, they'd create one - and the boogeyman-in-the-sky is just a meme which satisfies this urge in normal people.

Do you think it's worth discussing?
Mark Twain wrote "What is Man?", "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven", and "Letters From The Earth" which pretty much sum up what I've observed.

IS THERE ALREADY A THREAD THAT HAS A SIMILAR THEME?

Cheers,
(comfortable since the old Atheists.com days)
 
comfortable1949
BTW, that's me in 1959
 
seeker
comfortable1949 wrote:

I view religion as a symptom of the human condition, not the cause. I think if people didn't have a king or chief, they'd create one - and the boogeyman-in-the-sky is just a meme which satisfies this urge in normal people.



You always had a way of getting to the heart of a matter simply and concisely. Couldn't agree more. Good to see you again.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
comfortable1949
Hey, Seeker.
Good to see you, too.
I've asked skeeve if he can get me my old name back (comfortable - which will show more posts and an earlier join date).

So is there already a thread like this? Y'know...discussing sheeple and why it is they seem to have this need for Jupiter/Yaweh/The Juu-juu that lives at the bottom of the lake - who will punish those who don't sacrifice their daughters?

I don't like the idea of ritual cannibalism, but over a billion do. Hey, wait! To those who actually believe in trans-substantiation, it's more than mere ritual....it's Actual cannibalism.

Anyone else here find it strange that sheeple have always imagined gods that demand your fear? ....or that xtians would call this 'love'?

Shock
 
comfortable
Just checking out how I look using my old 'comfortable' name, while trying to keep my new avatar.
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
comfortable
Hokay !!
That seemed to work well.

So - where's all the hotbed of activity around here?
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
seeker
The activity has slowed somewhat. You may be it.

I tend to think that Gods, spirits etc are all manifestations of peoples desire to be taken care of. We are all conditioned to being looked after through childhood and I think many people just want that to continue. More cynical people got a hold of that early on and built an entire hierarchy to take advantage of that desire.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
comfortable
Hmmmmmm.....
Why did the old site get drive-by Jaysus people allatime?
Was it the direct nature of the URL "Athiests.com" ?

Or was it before iPhones got popular (so sheeple spend much less time in forums and chat rooms - and more time on instagram)?

(I wonder what the intentions were of the original URL owners was when the started the place - or what they did with all the information they had after they decided to take it down?)

Anyhow, on the sheeple, your average Joe doesn't want to think for himself. H.L. Mencken pointed out that he actually finds it 'painful' to think.

And yes, Seneca the Younger, 2300 years ago, pointed out that the common man knew religion to be true, while the wise man knew it to be false, but the Emperor knew it to be it useful.

https://www.brain...eca_118600

Cheers,
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
seeker
Nowadays most of the discussion is on facebook and twitter. They are easier to set up than dedicated sites like this one.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
comfortable
Hokay. Thanks, Seeker.
Somehow I don't see or can't imagine a "discussion" on those media. I've had a Facebook account for several years just to share family photos with my kids, but have never felt the need to 'like' or 'dislike' anything - and how would they organize into threads/discussions?
Neither have I had any urge to post selfies of "Me" standing at the edge of a canyon, or Me in front of a statue.

I'm gettin' old, it seems.

Okay - there are videos on "How to make a Forum in Facebook Pages" and "How to create a private group on facebook"

Twitter - hmmmmmm. Not so much.

Oh well, thanks.
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
comfortable
So - has anyone from here created, or is anyone aware of any discussion groups on either of those formats? (Twitter / Facebook)
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
comfortable
comfortable wrote:

So - has anyone from here created, or is anyone aware of any discussion groups on either of those formats? (Twitter / Facebook)


Hmmmmm....a little over two million followers/members of this one
https://www.faceb...tRepublic/

I'll poke around and find out what they're up to.
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
comfortable
Thanks, Seeker.

I need to let you know that I've tried out Atheist Republic on Facebook. Let's see what happens...

I just posted this
Since there's been much typing about this religion or that, what some sanctimonious hypocrite was caught doing this week....(which I found interesting at first, but not after the 5,000th example)...I've started focusing on believers instead. Not WHAT they believe, but WHY they feel compelled to believe such self-contradictory ideas (i.e. Jesus died for us, he rose from the dead 3 days later. In what sense did he die for me? He 'paid for our sins' by his crucifiction. I'll pay you $8,000 for your used car. If I take my money back in 3 days, did I pay for your car?)

I view religion as a symptom of the human condition, not the cause. I think if people didn't have a king or chief, they'd create one - and the boogeyman-in-the-sky is just a meme which satisfies this urge in normal people.

Do you think it's worth discussing?
Mark Twain wrote "What is Man?", "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven", and "Letters From The Earth" which pretty much sum up what I've observed.

IS THERE ALREADY A THREAD THAT HAS A SIMILAR THEME?

One thing that Facebook offers that is difficult in PHP forums, is a simple and easy way to upload pictures.

Cheers and best wishes for a fulfilled life, Seeker.
Y'know, Mark Twain, in "What is Man?" wrote that no one is a full-time seeker of truth (I'm thinking of this because of your moniker) - but he is wrong, in my case.
Twain felt that everyone only seeks until they find something that makes them comfortable (whoa! seeker and comfortable are useful words)...then they spend the rest of their lives with paint and caulking and shingles, trying to protect that belief "from the weather".
I'll agree that this is true in most, but not me.
If someone can tell me about a god in logical terms, I'll listen and try to believe....I will. But I've never heard of one. The closest I've come to internally-consistent belief system is where the buddha supposedly said that one's pain and misery comes from within one's self and one should examine oneself to discover why, and then will be able to find peace. I agree with that. The emotional anger and pain I see in people every day is certainly self-inflicted. I can say this because, after reasoning it out on my own, I tried buddha's method, and it works well for me. Very well indeed. No one is able to ruffle my feathers except my wife - and I realize that is my own fault. I'm working on it internally, and there are days when I succeed with her, too.

Best to you, Seeker. Thanks for being there.
.
The fewer the facts, the stronger the opinion.
.
Men are sheep in credulity, but wolves for conformity.
 
seeker
comfortable wrote:

Thanks, Seeker.

I need to let you know that I've tried out Atheist Republic on Facebook. Let's see what happens...


Let us know how that goes. I do miss the quality of discussions we used to have on this site.

comfortable wrote:I just posted this
Since there's been much typing about this religion or that, what some sanctimonious hypocrite was caught doing this week....(which I found interesting at first, but not after the 5,000th example)...I've started focusing on believers instead. Not WHAT they believe, but WHY they feel compelled to believe such self-contradictory ideas (i.e. Jesus died for us, he rose from the dead 3 days later. In what sense did he die for me? He 'paid for our sins' by his crucifiction. I'll pay you $8,000 for your used car. If I take my money back in 3 days, did I pay for your car?)

I view religion as a symptom of the human condition, not the cause. I think if people didn't have a king or chief, they'd create one - and the boogeyman-in-the-sky is just a meme which satisfies this urge in normal people.

Do you think it's worth discussing?
Mark Twain wrote "What is Man?", "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven", and "Letters From The Earth" which pretty much sum up what I've observed.

IS THERE ALREADY A THREAD THAT HAS A SIMILAR THEME?


I'm a big fan of Twain's "The Mysterious Stranger", similar themes.

comfortable wrote:One thing that Facebook offers that is difficult in PHP forums, is a simple and easy way to upload pictures.


I'm not a real big fan of facebook either. "Discussion" on that site is mainly just drive by comments. There is rarely any kind of follow-up to any given comment.

comfortable wrote:Cheers and best wishes for a fulfilled life, Seeker.
Lets hope that is true for all of us.
comfortable wrote:Y'know, Mark Twain, in "What is Man?" wrote that no one is a full-time seeker of truth (I'm thinking of this because of your moniker) - but he is wrong, in my case.
Twain felt that everyone only seeks until they find something that makes them comfortable (whoa! seeker and comfortable are useful words)...then they spend the rest of their lives with paint and caulking and shingles, trying to protect that belief "from the weather".
I'll agree that this is true in most, but not me.
If someone can tell me about a god in logical terms, I'll listen and try to believe....I will. But I've never heard of one. The closest I've come to internally-consistent belief system is where the buddha supposedly said that one's pain and misery comes from within one's self and one should examine oneself to discover why, and then will be able to find peace. I agree with that. The emotional anger and pain I see in people every day is certainly self-inflicted. I can say this because, after reasoning it out on my own, I tried buddha's method, and it works well for me. Very well indeed. No one is able to ruffle my feathers except my wife - and I realize that is my own fault. I'm working on it internally, and there are days when I succeed with her, too.

Best to you, Seeker. Thanks for being there.
Thanks to you as well.

I've always found that the moment I think I know something is usually the moment I'm due to learn more about what I didn't know. For me it is the journey that is meaningful, there is no real security in finding "truth", only in seeking it. I tend to think of anger and pain as the result of expectations unrealized.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
comfortable1949
There is rarely any kind of follow-up to any given comment.
That seems to be true.
I've always found that the moment I think I know something is usually the moment I'm due to learn more about what I didn't know. For me it is the journey that is meaningful, there is no real security in finding "truth", only in seeking it. I tend to think of anger and pain as the result of expectations unrealized.

I am, and have been for the past 15 years, in total agreement with each of these points.
All anger stems from unmet expectations and if I cannot change the world, it serves me well to examine my expectations.
I don't care if electrons are "real" (The Truth), I only find the model useful because when I apply the rules for them to my work, I get good and consistent results.
I used to disagree with my youngest on the journey. He firmly insisted that failing to reach the top of the mountain made the entire hike a failure. He refused to find any value in the exercise, beautiful flowers and animals seen, and people met and conversed-with along the way.

Those that do remember the past, are condemned to sit helplessly by and watch others repeat it, in their name (e.g. Iraq / Afghanistan invasion - after we all should have learned our lessons in Vietnam).

The biggest improvement to my own life was self-honesty when I realized that I had much unhappiness after doing things "for" my wife and kids - which weren't appreciated at all. Even Twain wrote about this in his short essay "Something About Repentance" - 1908....But I arrived at the realization that I wasn't doing it "For" them, I was doing it for me, so that I
- felt good about myself
- would receive smiles and gratefulness from them
After realizing this about myself, and letting go of the expectations, I no longer felt anger when my 'expectations were not met'.
Then to read precisely this analysis in Twain's What is Man - further endeared him to me as a wise person who had thought these things through and written eloquently on them...thus validating my own thoughts on the matter (EVERYONE seeks validation - another of the rules I've come up with).

Cheers
 
Hypatia
comfortable1949 wrote:

Been gone for a while. Granddaughter's 14 now.
Old and creaky (I'll be 69 in December), with some interesting medical conditions!

I read my dad's letter recently; the one he wrote in 1992 just before the surgery that took him from us.
He pontificates on God and how we should be good people.
It was a bunch of crap, but I miss him anyhow.

Got to writing my own letter to my kids and grandkids to be read after I leave....
Dad's was 2-1/2 pages
Mine's 85.

In it, I didn't rail about 'religion' - instead I honestly shared that I cannot understand people who are happy with the idea that they are 'saved' while the rest of us are going to Hell. Pretty mean-spririted, I think.

SO,

Since there's been much typing about this religion or that, what some sanctimonious hypocrite was caught doing this week....(which I found interesting at first, but not after the 5,000th example)...I've started focusing on believers instead. Not WHAT they believe, but WHY they feel compelled to believe such self-contradictory ideas (i.e. Jesus died for us, he rose from the dead 3 days later. In what sense did he die for me? He 'paid for our sins' by his crucifiction. I'll pay you $8,000 for your used car. If I take my money back in 3 days, did I pay for your car?)

I view religion as a symptom of the human condition, not the cause. I think if people didn't have a king or chief, they'd create one - and the boogeyman-in-the-sky is just a meme which satisfies this urge in normal people.

Do you think it's worth discussing?
Mark Twain wrote "What is Man?", "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven", and "Letters From The Earth" which pretty much sum up what I've observed.

IS THERE ALREADY A THREAD THAT HAS A SIMILAR THEME?

Cheers,
(comfortable since the old Atheists.com days)


That's really nice comfortable, about the letters you're writing to your grandkids.

Nice to read something here from you again.
 
Hypatia
seeker wrote:

The activity has slowed somewhat. You may be it.

I tend to think that Gods, spirits etc are all manifestations of peoples desire to be taken care of. We are all conditioned to being looked after through childhood and I think many people just want that to continue. More cynical people got a hold of that early on and built an entire hierarchy to take advantage of that desire.


I think one reason people need religion, one with an afterlife, is that it can be pretty hard for some people to accept that most likely they'll never see their dearly departed loved ones again. So with lots of faith and an afterlife there's still a possibility of reuniting with those people and animals again, and for some, it isn't just a possibility, it's a promise and thus a given. It's hard for them to believe their god would put these people in their lives and then take them. It's a coping mechanism for how hard it is to not have those people anymore and a way to reason it.
 
comfortable1949
If you like punishment, I could share a link to two books I've written.

1. that 85-page letter to my kids
2. a 400 page book about myself trying to find love and family from the age of 16 until today.

They are on my Google Drive.

I would be willing to share the link to the two books with either you or Seeker if I had your private email address (I don't want to share with anyone who reads this forum, just you two, whom I trust.)

Meanwhile, I will share this very short episode and you can come with me as my dad takes me for a haircut at the age of 8 (in 1958).

Only more if you ask.

Oh, my 85 page letter is paperback (only 5 copies as proofs) with the title "The Boy Who Stopped Praying".

The 400 page book is about my search for love and my adventures in Korea, Guam, the Philippines in the 1960s and '70s (I've got 5 copies of that as well, hidden in my garage to be found after I check out).

The 85 page letter is about my search for God (and why I quit looking).


You won't hurt my feelings at all if you just ignore it. Nobody wants to watch someone else's home movies (heh heh).

I guess there's 3 stories there. The Redlands Barber Shop is only 6-1/2 pages.

https://drive.goo...G0JISUQtJs

Cheers
 
seeker
Hypatia wrote:

I think one reason people need religion, one with an afterlife, is that it can be pretty hard for some people to accept that most likely they'll never see their dearly departed loved ones again. So with lots of faith and an afterlife there's still a possibility of reuniting with those people and animals again, and for some, it isn't just a possibility, it's a promise and thus a given. It's hard for them to believe their god would put these people in their lives and then take them. It's a coping mechanism for how hard it is to not have those people anymore and a way to reason it.


Hypatia, great to hear from you.

I agree, what greater fear has mankind than of death and loss?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Hypatia
comfortable1949 wrote:

If you like punishment, I could share a link to two books I've written.

1. that 85-page letter to my kids
2. a 400 page book about myself trying to find love and family from the age of 16 until today.

They are on my Google Drive.

I would be willing to share the link to the two books with either you or Seeker if I had your private email address (I don't want to share with anyone who reads this forum, just you two, whom I trust.)

Meanwhile, I will share this very short episode and you can come with me as my dad takes me for a haircut at the age of 8 (in 1958).

Only more if you ask.

Oh, my 85 page letter is paperback (only 5 copies as proofs) with the title "The Boy Who Stopped Praying".

The 400 page book is about my search for love and my adventures in Korea, Guam, the Philippines in the 1960s and '70s (I've got 5 copies of that as well, hidden in my garage to be found after I check out).

The 85 page letter is about my search for God (and why I quit looking).


You won't hurt my feelings at all if you just ignore it. Nobody wants to watch someone else's home movies (heh heh).

I guess there's 3 stories there. The Redlands Barber Shop is only 6-1/2 pages.

https://drive.goo...G0JISUQtJs

Cheers


It'd be great to be subjected to your letter and 400 page book, comfortable, sent you my email addy, and I enjoyed the trip to the barbershop. Thanks for sharing these.
 
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