Category Archives: Just cause

David Silverman In Wonderland

David Silverman, the current president of American Atheists was invited to and agreed (after some haggling) to be a guest on the Brave Hero podcast which is hosted by Justin Vacula (va-cool-a) and Karla Porter (chill-g-rll) I know them both and have found them to be honest and they both tend to take a more formal (professional) approach towards conflict. That podcast took place on June, 15 2013. David was invited to further discuss issues raised in a twitter conversation with Justin. These are my thoughts on that podcast and some related interaction I have had.

ftb

Freethought Blogs -We fail with more than just words

Before I talk about the Brave Hero podcast I’ll give you a little background on my interaction with David to be open and honest about things. I’ve had David Silverman on my podcast as a guest, I’ve had a couple conversations with him in person. I’ve had an ongoing conversation with him in the last week in private messages about the conflict that has been ongoing between atheist/skeptics and FTB/A+/skepchick poser skeptics. Nothing extensive, David didn’t seem to have many facts about Justin Vacula and his role in the conflict so I figured he would appreciate being better informed. That way he could form a fair opinion based on truths.

David was more than happy to discuss the issue with me but insisted I was associated with “the shit”. He wasn’t nearly as interested in listening to what I had to say as he was in getting me to understand his version of the conflict. It was as if I was just making things up. At times it was like I had said nothing at all. David just walked by facts as if they were not even there, he didn’t even stumble over them a little. It is like David doesn’t need any facts or details, he has the answers already.

So David agrees to appear on Brave Hero radio after he and Justin Vacula (vac-cool-a) had a dispute over Justin denouncing what David refers to as “the shit”. I’m not sure what “the shit” is exactly. So far, “the shit” seems to be defined as stuff that David calls “the shit”. That is as clear a definition as any David has offered (which is none/nothing/nada)

David dives in right at the start and you can hear the condescension immediately. When asked for some examples of what it is exactly David thinks is “the shit” in the atheist community he replies that he doesn’t need to provide any examples.  David then goes on to point out that there is no way for men to know what it is like to be a woman. It is one of the few valid points that David makes, the problem is Justin has not made the demand that women shut up  or claimed to know better what it’s like to be a woman than even women do. Never once have I heard him even come close to either of those things.

David gives me the impression that he thinks it is his place to scold Justin “to help make him a better activist”. If being a better activist means over-talking the host when on a podcast or steamrolling over another person during conversation then David Silverman is the best activist I’ve ever seen. PZ Myers calls me a ranting asshole? At least I can get my facts straight. David has a problem with that. He also seems to be hung up on a few catch phrases. “Go fuck a knife” is one “You are too ugly to be raped” is another. David also seems to be under the impression that fake twitter accounts are a major factor in people leaving atheist activism. He gives Jennifer McCreight as an example of someone who was forced out. From my understanding Jennifer has some issues that contributed to her leaving that had nothing to do with fake twitter accounts. I’m not sure what David thinks is going to result from something called ‘boobquake’ when it goes viral but if he expects the world to mind it’s manners when it comes to boobs he is living in a fantasy land. I’m not saying it is acceptable behavior but people should accept the fact men are often pigs who say rude things to women, it is going to happen.

David  continues to insist that Justin act with professionalism. I’m left wondering what would happen if say if Justin took David’s example for professionalism and embraced it. Would yelling over people and using vague undefined terms while he making false accusations and ranting about things he knows absolutely nothing about be a better approach than offering to discuss issues in a open public forum without personal attacks? I think any mature intelligent adult would say no to even suggest such a thing is shit.

David Silverman repeatedly dodges any attempts to point out how his relationships are just like the ones he is calling Justin on. PZ Myers has behaved in incredibly irresponsible ways. PZ should consider changing his legal name to Libel Lyers (nice ring) at this point.  I can’t believe David is totally ignorant to the  actions and words coming from PZ or the number of people he has pissed off because he isn’t willing to accept people as allies. He makes it quite clear he has no use for people who disagree with him or his attempts to force a certain mindset be accepted by atheists.

I get the fact that David Silverman is probably sick of the petty fighting, he is sick of the childish and chickenshit attacks on women. Let it be known I am tired of it too. There were things I thought I could count on from people who were skeptics and atheists as a general rule. I have learned a lesson. People, all types of people have the potential to act like fucking childish, self centered, judgmental, hyper-sensitive,  humorless, biased, idiots. I will no longer underestimate anyone’s ability to fit that description. I will however wait for them to fit the description before I apply it to them. Until then they get a basic deserved respect from me by default. They get the benefit of the doubt. I will also always be willing to settle any differences by talking to people. I will not sit on my hands and watch as religion is replaced by  something just as dangerous hidden under a veil of someone’s righteous ideology.

I am bothered by David Silverman’s behavior. As I have said before I had respect for him but I can not respect his actions in this case given I know for a fact he knew better. Here is my direct reply to him just  so no one gets it twisted.-

    David, I gave you examples of things that were done/said to me that are far more damaging than any Photoshop of FTB bloggers holding We (heart) Justin signs. There are dozens and dozens of examples on the net of other people with the same stories. You were deliberately deceptive in your conversation with Justin about association. Do you think he or anyone else doesn’t know that?

I made that Photoshop David and it was for a reason. Those people, just about EVERY SINGLE ONE in that photo suggested he not attend or even attempted to keep Justin from attending that conference. That is wrong and for you to be critical of Justin for trying to make light of actions that are sickening and juvenile demonstrates a clear favoritism on your part.

     Justin DID NOT post Surly Amy’s address on purpose. I was in contact with Justin during that event. He never wanted to attack Amy in any way. He was trying to defend himself. He posted the address by accident. He got chewed out for his mistake as soon as he made it by myself and others. It was a stupid mistake. For you to accuse him of malice is bullshit. Listen closely-I WAS THERE. YOU ARE WRONG.
Who do you think you are fooling David? Do you really think anyone who knows anything about this is going to have any respect for you after hearing your skewed version of events? There are 600+ members of the slymepit, you gave the impression that you think they are all making rape threats, that isn’t even close to true. To say they are all “shit” is just dumb.

       A couple of isolated comments by someone with a 12 year old maturity level are not a solid base for your argument. You are the shit in this instance David. You are full of shit, you are spreading shit, and you have stepped in shit. You can’t even define your own term. At one point you told Justin to own his own ownership? Really? I had a lot of respect for you David, I thought you would be at least fair, shit I thought you would at least be civil. You couldn’t even have a conversation, you had to try and intimidate Justin. What if he responds in the same manner as you have to him? I’m sorry I was mistaken and I’m embarrassed for you David.

 

One of the high points of the podcast was the chat. Someone under the name PZ Myers was part of the conversation. I have reason to believe it was him because I can’t think of anyone else who would claim to be even in jest. Could it be PZ finally gained the testicular fortitude to venture out from his protected little den infested by the inept horde and stepped into the real world? I will give him credit for that if it is the case. I will also note he was up to his same old tricks blabbering away as if his psychic powers allow him to know me and what I am thinking at all times. Claiming that my responses to his attacks on my character are reason to dismiss anything I may have to say. If you are reading this PZ keep in mind what I told you in the chat. It would do you wonders to chill the fuck out and listen to people just for a little while instead of treating them like shit for daring to disagree. Just because someone doesn’t agree with you it doesn’t make them wrong.

Here is a link to the Brave Hero podcast 

Here is a link to the chat,( highly recommended reading )

 

Note- As this is posted David has responded to my last message. While we still have major differences in opinion. It should be noted that David Silverman is willing to continue to discuss those differences in a respectful manner. If I am going to criticize I must also be able to acknowledge reasonable behavior and willingness to at least try and find common ground. After the reasoned, respectable behavior we have seen from slymepitters who have been in discussion with Stephanie Zvan.  I wonder what will be said when it is proven that people who are part of the slymepit are not  hateful monsters after all. Time will tell, I hope some people are ready to put their social justice feet where their mouths are.

I will be following up on this, trust me.

In Support of Ron Lindsay

 

propaganda

 

In case you didn’t know it Ron Lindsay  has been catching some slack for his opening speech at the Women in Secularism 2 conference.

There has been  a call to remove Mr Lindsay from his position. I can’t tell you how much this bothers me. The fact it has even been called for is incredibly troublesome. The people who are calling for such action have got to be ignorant on a level that should shame them. We are better than this, we are smarter than this, and we have more common sense…at least we should have. Just because a group yells loud does not mean they have a better position on an issue or have the best interests of everyone in mind. In this case I think it is clear one small segment is attempting to claim they represent a large portion of the community when that simply is not the case.

You can support Ron Lindsay by sending a email in support to  tflynn@centerforinquiry.net

Here is a copy of what I sent them-

  I would like to voice my support for Ron Lindsay, the speech he made at the beginning of the WIS2 conference and his overall attitude through a very stressful period in the atheist/skeptical circles.

  I raised a daughter as a single father. She has become a mature self confident compassionate member of society. I have no interest in supporting anyone I believe would hinder my daughter or any other woman in achieving anything she aspires to. I volunteered time to help create the media for launch of Secular Woman. While I would not call myself a feminist because of the unclear definition, I can say I speak out on behalf of and do work to help achieve equal rights for women.

       In my opinion Ron did nothing that could be considered harmful to women, their rights, or anyone else’s rights. This trend towards removing people from positions because they have upset a vocal portion of the community is a dangerous one.

     The main criticism of the opening speech seems to be who was the source of the speech. Ron, being a middle-aged white man was being criticized before he even finished speaking. The outrage displayed that a man dare voice an opinion at a woman’s conference is unbelievable. I ask you to consider the speech not knowing who the speaker was. If you can read that speech not knowing who is delivering it and not be offended to the point of outrage then Ron Lindsay did nothing wrong except be born white and male. When you start to judge or penalize people for the way they were created you do everyone a disservice.

  There is an attempt to force what can only be described as an agenda on the atheist/skeptical community. This agenda has nothing to do with atheism and it does not stand up to examination by skeptics. Still certain people are attempting to make it part of these ways of thinking. The CFI is just the latest in a list of groups /people who have been targeted. I hope they follow the lead of every other group effected by this type of behavior and continue to embrace facts and integrity over propaganda and falsehoods.

 Thank you for your time

‘Reap’ Paden

 

PZ Myers PLEASE Get A Fucking Clue

 

PZ gives his best answer

PZ gives his best answer

So I try to avoid PZ Myers comment section. Between that angry bitter hater of life Caine de Flop, brownian the master of self doxxing (see here) and crying like a baby and the rest of the uninformed dolts that reside in there I can feel my IQ drop as I read their fictional version of events. The only thing being horded in there is ignorance.

Since Ophelia Benson is doing everything possible to avoid anyone paying attention to her by threatening to make public the name of a commenter who dared tell her to “get some help” (good advice IMO) I found myself checking out the contribution PZ has made to the latest self-made drama.

As I wade through the attempts to justify what is obviously wrong behavior on Ophelia’s part and the random incorrect accusation that I somehow provided brownian’s real name to the public, which never happened unless K is his last name. I only learned that much because of brownian providing it. In fact brownian outed himself (see here)

Brownian, OM

December 16, 2008

AnthonyK, that’s funny! I have to cancel out the Rev. BDC’s typos lest the universe annihilate itself.

Incidentally, I’m also an Anthony K in RL, so it kinda freaks me out when I see your name!

(That, and I’m a teensy bit baked. Uh-oh. Munchies. I’m gonna go put rosemary on something and eat it.)

 As if that wasn’t enough I also see someone ask a question

iiandyiiii

29 May 2013 at 1:36 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

I’ve been reading PZ’s blog almost every day for the past year or so, but I still don’t understand the basics of this ongoing debate/feud/flame war/whatever between (as far as I can tell) pro-feminist atheists like PZ and anti-feminist atheists… it seems like it started quite a while ago, and (again, as far as I can tell) every post seems to refer to past events that I’m not aware of. Is there a “sum up” post somewhere, or can someone just sum it up for me?

PZ Myers, being a wealth of information and ready to provide complete bullshit on demand jumps to answer like this-

29 May 2013 at 1:40 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

There is no summary. There’s a faction that detests feminism, really hates women like Rebecca Watson who get all uppity and point out gender inequities, and they’ve gone on a two year long temper tantrum of irrational gibberish, photoshop games, misrepresentation, fuming about anti-harassment policies, and calling us ‘cunts’ and ‘manginas’, among other colorful sex-based slurs. The good thing is that all the assholes have conveniently decamped to a place called the slymepit where they spend all their time whining about FtB and Skepchicks.

I can hardly find the words to describe my feelings about this reply from PZ. I will attempt it though….WHAT THE FUCK?! Where does PZ Myers live ? Does he even try to pay attention?  How can he describe the bullshit he has played a major part in causing like this? I can’t lay all the blame on PZ but holy shit reality must be a tiny little dot in whatever sky it is  PZ sees when he looks up. This isn’t even close to accurate. If he does think this is true or even if he doesn’t and is just saying it in order to prevent another person from learning- PZ is delusional and disconnected from the real events and opinions of others. I can’t believe even his comment section would let that  pass……guess what? It has gone unchallenged as of the time of this post….. we have a serious problem.

Conditions on Conversation

blog

      Something interesting happened the other day. Justin Vacula and David Silverman had an exchange on twitter. Dave was taking issue with Justin not being vocal enough about bad behavior from his “side” ( note:there is no one, two or ten sides to this. There are way more than that. Trying to simplify it as two sides shows a lack of understanding about the issue)  At one point David said this –

@justinvacula for example, the fake pic of @rebeccawatson in sexually demeaning position. Can you agree that’s shit? Publicly?

i don’t know what pic Dave is talking about. I don’t pay attention to that kind of shit and I don’t mention it because I assume people will know I do not approve of those types of pics. To draw attention to such idiotic behavior is to give the person who created it exactly what they want , attention. If you do not then people of this caliber will almost always go away. A need for attention is the entire reason for creating such a pic.

Sometimes even asking a question is insulting.  I wonder how Dave would feel if someone on CNN asked him if he thought child porn was a bad thing. I imagine he would scoff and maybe even hesitate before answering such a question because it would ( i hope ) be unexpected. Would he wonder why he was being asked such a question? Would he be just a little offended that someone would feel they needed to ask him if he was against child porn?

@justinvacula hate and threats against your opposition is the wrong thing about which to be silent.

Something really bothers me about the demand David Silverman made before he would have a conversation with Justin. Maybe because it was public and didn’t need to be. It kinda made Justin look bad when he really didn’t deserve it. Far worse behavior has been witnessed, calling  Justin out on this is a strange place to begin addressing bad behavior. Hasn’t Justin been misrepresented enough? I know he can take it but it is almost as if David was just bored or frustrated and needed to vent on someone. Did David Silverman feel like it was his chance to teach Justin a valuable lesson in life and he just chose to do it in a disrespectful manner?  I suppose only David knows the answer but I know I was uncomfortable reading the exchange. It was another instance where the leader of a large organization picked out an Individual to criticize in a public forum.  Justin has put himself in the middle of things, but again , there are others who would benefit more from the lesson David was attempt to teach IMO.

The exchange continued-

Richard Reed ‏@RichardReed8422 May

@MrAtheistPants are you going to condemn the way PZ has described people like myself? Disagreement is not trolling.

@JimMacDonaldMMA quit crying. We will deal with this one issue at a time. Step one is no anonymous hate, threats of violence, shit.

  So David says “one step at a time” regarding PZ then this happens-

David Silverman, a principled atheist: Go to twitter now: David Silverman (@MrAtheistPants) is tearing the ath… http://bit.ly/14y2yqF 

    David Silverman, a principled atheist

Atheism

by PZ Myers

Go to twitter now: David Silverman (@MrAtheistPants) is tearing the atheist trolls a new one. This is really what I like to see: a leader of a major atheist organization taking an unambiguous stand against this ulcer in our midst, and repudiating the spammy, photoshopping, lying behavior of the anti-feminist clique.

How much do I appreciate it? With my dollars. My wife is going to sign us up for a lifetime membership in American Atheists while I’m away. It’s not a casual investment, so not everyone can do that, but you could send them a donation to let the organization know that you like a leader with a spine.

 Here is where the real problem starts-
  1. Thanks! : David Silverman, a principled atheist: Go to twitter now: David Silverman is tearing the ath…

  2. Thank you for your support! We’d be proud to have you as a Life Member!

  3. you’re not listening. I tried to help. Please consider what I’ve written and meant. Gotta go.

 

So PZ Myers and Ophelia Benson are like two old squawking vultures circling David and Justin waiting for David to deal the last blow to the guy who has been disrupting their feeding time. David actually acknowledges PZ with a tweet/wave. At this point as you can see they are right in the middle of David calling on Justin to condemn behavior he had no active part in and has never made excuses for except to say nothing.  David Silverman has a perfect opportunity to address another large part of the problem. All he had to do was make the play-field level, apply the same rules to everyone. David should have asked the same thing of PZ  and Ophelia as he did of Justin. Of course PZ would have had to condemn himself if he were to properly answer David’s request. It would have been interesting to watch what happened.

Instead we get PZ throwing a reward at David and American Atheists as if there had been a WANTED sign with Justin’s name on it.

David Silverman does mention donations and new memberships later on in the evening so I guess we can credit Justin Vacula for doing more good work on behalf of atheism. If it were not for Justin no one would have been inclined to donate and PZ most likely wouldn’t have signed his wife and himself up as a lifetime members. PZ did make it sound like he had been holding off on offering his wife until a worthwhile deed was done. One worthy of his wife’s lifetime pledge. Justin attempting to get David Silverman on his podcast was that special thing PZ was waiting for. Seems odd to me but whatever PZ wants to give as a reward is his business, not mine.

To be fair David Silverman probably doesn’t know about all the childish, divisive, and hypocritical antics of the few FTB bloggers and Skepchicks. I wouldn’t expect him to, he has (I hope) better things to do up until now.

That has changed a little bit now. When David demanded a certain level of behavior from Justin then he set the bar. Neither The Lord of Hate PZ  or The Queen of Stalking Ophelia could  currently touch that bar even if they had a ladder.  That needs to change now. Since they both thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread watching David get Justin Vacula under control it should be just as entertaining when it happens to them. Will it happen? Will the bar be set at the same height for everyone? I hope so because if it isn’t I have a feeling there is going to be some fallout from that, as there should be.

 

     As a sideline I should mention I think David had the right idea in mind. No one should be correct by default and no one is always wrong. There should be more instances of people talking about things they agree about and making sure the unfair and pointless responses on either side get little or no attention.

 

 

 

Definitively Divisive

 

pzslyme

PZ Myers is afraid of the slymepit if his actions are any indication

Ron Lindsay, President of The Center for Inquiry opened up the Women in Secularism 2 conference in DC this past weekend with this talk. Ron then caught a load of crap from some people. Rebecca Watson said-

Very strange to open #wiscfi w a white male CEO lecturing women about using the concept of privilege to silence men.

The inability of secular leaders to take on & respond to polite constructive criticism is embarrassing. #wiscfi http://ow.ly/1WpuDC

PZ said-

PZ Myers@pzmyers 17 May

Not very impressed with Lindsay opening #wiscfi with a caricature.

Wait…@RALindsay was thinking of and objecting to ME in his opening remarks? I am so proud.

  These two are amazing to say the least. It’s like Rebecca has naked pictures of PZ doing something he shouldn’t and is using them to control him. PZ defends everything Rebecca does. Rebecca has even snapped at PZ and PZ just rolls over and waits for her to rub his belly. Okay maybe Rebecca doesn’t have any pic but there  is something odd about the relationship between them.
 PZ has criticized Sam Harris, Steven Novella, Michael Shermer, Ron Lindsay, Richard Dawkins  as well as countless other popular and not so well known atheists on their stance about feminism. How damn good does PZ really think he is?
   Rebecca, PZ , Jason Thibeault, Ophelia Benson, Stephanie Zvan and the other handful of poser skeptic bloggers along with  ‘the horde of idiots’ PZ has amassed in his comment section have been tearing down groups like JREF, RDF and CFI as they try to force their agenda on the rest of the world. So far they have been getting kicked in the face as a result.
PZ Myers, who at this point has got to be the most out of touch individual I have ever seen, keeps acting as though he and his “horde” are going to take over the world. Unfortunately, in reality, they couldn’t take over a grade-school playground if they used a tank.
  PZ continues to ban anyone from the slymepit in his comment section. How damn paranoid can you get? The people in the slymepit must be hitting on a nerve pretty hard for PZ to damn the whole forum the way he has. The forum keeps getting a bad rap from some of the rad fems aligned with PZ and Rebbecca. Melody claimed that “half the slymepit” has descended upon Ron Lindsay’s blog post . In reality there were 6 people who had posted that had direct links to the slymepit forum…..FYI for Melody and whoever else doesn’t get it-  There are over 600 members in the slymepit forum. Melody isn’t too good at math or she has caught whatever it is PZ has. Maybe PZ thinks there are only 12 members of the slymepit since he can’t seem to figure out who has actually posted there and who hasn’t.
 In my last blog I talked about how Rebecca hasn’t been able to come up with any solutions. PZ is no better , in fact I think it is safe to say he is even worse. PZ has turned out to be confused by relatively simple concepts such as- The world doesn’t think exactly the way you do.  or  Just because someone doesn’t agree with you on every point it doesn’t make them your enemy.
   PZ is behaving like Christians who hear you don’ t believe in god, they say “Don’t believe in god? Oh you worship the devil then huh?” I think I can say most if not all atheists do not worship the devil although I can tolerate Satanists easier than some Christians.
  PZ has been the single most divisive element in this civil war. He refuses to try and understand the opposing view, it is dismissed outright. This is a very dangerous way of doing things. When you make it clear a group is not worth listening  to or dealing with then what are you saying?  Aren’t you saying that group has no worth? When you send that kind of message then how are people going to act towards that group?  They are going to consider them worthless. After all what use is a group of people you want nothing to do with and won’t listen to?  It’s all well and good to say they can go on about their business but do you really  think you are never going to cross paths? What happens then? Confrontation built from resentment and lack of respect.  Without being over dramatic I can say-This is the kind of thing that has destroyed countries and resulted in countless deaths in our history. PZ Myers can’t seem to wrap his fat head around that neither can a lot of other people who think there are only two sides to this and that both sides are equally wrong/right.
  Who is listening to PZ myers anyways? Well a bunch of people who ripped right into Ron Lindsay hang on every word PZ writes which seems a bit  odd to me. PZ is an old white male who lives in an isolated part of Minnesota. He clearly is not a people person. He does not have an outgoing or easy-going personality. He is not even mildly friendly a lot of the times I have seen him interact with people. He clearly has two different (at least) personalities. He is a timid but rude mouse in real life and he is the almighty leader of  ‘the horde’ on the internet. He and the horde are going to change the world as long as they don’t have to actually have a discussion with or meet anyone in real life. Another concept PZ isn’t quite getting.
  I have been making these points for a while now and I see the tide turning. I can see more and more people who are tired of the bullshit, double talk and divisive antics of the FTB/skepchick/radical feminist gang. Now if we could just figure a way to get through those ego barriers and into the echo chambers they have built out of their fans….

Without A Care

 

card

Rebecca Watson has been acting without any concern for others IMO. She continues to blab any play the drama card in what appears to be a need for attention. When she talks about people making claims that she just needs attention her sarcasm and wit (imaginary) bust out and she dismisses the accusation. Well people always deny any negative claims about them. Along with that usually they will present evidence that those claims are not true. Rebecca is an exception to that. I believe it is for good reason.  I have another blog about her and PZ coming up, in fact I was in the middle of it when this post by here came up. I figured my reply would be good to post here so it stays complete and visible.

Here is a link to her blog post.

This is my reply-

The problem here is NOBODY should be making the fact Ron Lindsay is a white male part of their issue. Any criticism should be blind to gender or race or sexual preference or disability or physical feature. There is a reason that justice is blind. That is what keeps it fair. The criticism should be about his opinion ALONE. You had all better be careful when making assumptions about an entire group. How can anyone not know this already? Are you all so blinded by your cause that you would become what you are fighting? There is no large-scale organized effort to oppress women unless you want to count Republicans I could agree with that.

 

Don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to tell you what to think or to shut up but you would do well to try and accept the fact this crap rebecca is trying to sell nothing more than social snake oil.
Has anyone wondered why rebecca has never once tried to cool any of the drama she has started? The only damage control she ever does is when it is going to effect her directly. Otherwise she plays it long and loud. She grabs any little piece and fills it with hot air until its about to pop making it seem like the biggest thing in the room then she goes off into the corner and laughs while she watches people argue over what it is, whether it belongs in the room, and how best to dispose of it. When interest starts to die it is on to the next piece. She never comes in and explains what she did or even just lets people know the best way to remove it. She just plain doesn’t give a fuck about how any of her words effect others, or how many people have been negatively impacted because she thinks its cool to blow shit out of proportion. All she wants is whatever she wants.

It’s neat that you think the world is for your amusement rebecca but life doesn’t get amused and it doesn’t exist for you to use it to play games with people. Your antics are going to bite you on the ass one day. You can easily prove me wrong by offering some suggestions on how to repair some of the damage. Something besides “Do it my way” because obviously that method doesn’t work. I don’t expect you to understand why because it has to do with the feelings of others. As a wrap up let me remind you that life doesn’t care about any single one of you, what color you are, or who you like to fuck. We all get treated with the same consideration by life, none.

PZ world

Planet PZ Myers

PZ world

PZ doesn’t think the world revolves around him. He thinks it is all about him

 

PZ has a new post up. You can find it here.

It’s called The Scarlet Crayon of Atheism. Yes, it is as bad as the title, maybe worse. I guess even crayons are too much for PZ to handle. He moves around and trips over himself so much it is hard to know exactly what the hell he is talking about but here it goes.

He says-

I’ve been trying to understand how people — not just people, but self-declared “leaders of the atheist movement” — can claim that atheism is only the lack of belief in any gods, and further, that absence of god-belief entails no other significant consequences. It’s been difficult, because that way of thinking is alien to me; atheism for me is all tangled up in naturalism and scientific thinking, and it’s not just a single, simple cause but has a whole cascade of meaning. But I’m trying, and I think I’m beginning to get it. There is a reasonable way to regard atheism as important while at the same time limiting its import.

As you can see PZ explains he lacks the ability to understand other ways of thinking. At least he is trying to get it.(so he says) He still has a long way to go. First he is going to have to understand that definitions are important.

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist.Atheism is contrasted with theism,which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.

I really am sorry PZ can’t grasp this concept but I really would like him to quit spreading his ignorance around. He has his own definition for atheism, I get that, but the rest of the world has a say in it too and they don’t give a shit that a Biology teacher in Minnesota wants the definition changed according to his wishes.

One of his big problems is he gives too much credit to religion without acknowledging where religion came from. He talks as though god did exist at one time and then atheists came along with evolution in hand and suddenly god just disappeared. Now he wants to fight the residual effects of this god that once influenced mankind.

Man created religion and it represents mankind. PZ claims that religion has been the reason or justification for slavery and why women are thought to be inferior to men. Homosexuality is condemned by religion too so that must be the cause for discrimination. Sure religion has justified those things but there was never a god who created those biases. Mankind did it and will keep on doing it until it stops doing it.

Homophobia existed before Christianity In ancient Greece the practice was thought to be “unnatural”

The Sioux Indians made their women walk 5 steps behind the men. There were clear gender roles and they were not dictated by Christianity or any other religious practice. Even if they had been we would have to go back and think about who created that belief system. It wasn’t god.

Of course there were many who were tolerant of homosexuality just as many are becoming more tolerant now. We do not allow slavery in the USA anymore yet 80% of Americans claim to be religious. Getting rid of religion does not stop bad social practices. PZ is constantly complaining about the misogynist atheist he thinks are running rampant (paranoid much PZ?) doesn’t that give him a clue about the relation between religion and social issues?

PZ says-

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose

So we now need a “secular purpose” for helping a disabled person get their wheelchair through a door? Is it just me or does PZ’s claim that there must be a secular reason sound strangely like there must be some sort of reward ?What about this- Your moral code must benefit secularism in a testable way? or You must do good because it will please god. Too much alike for me. I will continue to help people because they need it and because it makes me feel good.

PZ continues-

Thank you to those who are willing to stand up for atheism simply as a matter of choice and principle, but you should know and be warned that we intend to change the world. We are more dangerous than you can even imagine. And apparently, more dangerous than even some atheists can imagine.

I can agree with that statement. PZ’s way of thinking is dangerous but not in the way he claims it to be. It’s a matter of possessing just enough knowledge of a subject to be dangerous. Social matters are something PZ is not good at. He seems to have a grade school knowledge of the subject. He fails to understand the complexities of social interaction and that is why he gets so much push-back. Add the fact he is an egotistical dick and it magnifies his ability to fail. When PZ jokes about never being wrong….it isnt a joke to him. He really thinks he is above everyone else, smarter, more experienced. PZ is so awesome he can change the definitions of words as he sees fit.

I don’t disagree with the belief that women should be treated as equals. I don’t think anyone has the right to discriminate against other people for the way they were born.

PZ doesn’t scare me nor does his little gang of baby chicken commenters. If you have ever seen PZ post outside of his little blog, he gets his head handed to him on a regular basis. Outside of his echo chamber none of his rhetoric can stand up.That is why he doesn’t debate and refuses to even have a conversation with people that disagree with him. He knows his house is made of wet paper. PZ is a twerp he uses his condescension to cover up his lack of spine. He doesn’t have to make time for you, you don’t have anything of value to say, you don’t get to tell him how to spend his time. All lame excuses. He sits at home nice and safe while he puffs up his chest and beats off on the internet. As soon as someone mentions actually making him back up his big talk he starts cowering and looking for a place to hide.

It finally ends like this-

I have to add that many theists also accept a secular morality — they may like their religion, but they also recognize that you must have a better excuse for community action than “god said so.”

PZ, you should have a better reason for the shit you do than “god doesn’t exist” Religion isn’t the reason for all the social injustice in the world and non-belief isn’t a cure. What we need is less people like you who can’t find a middle ground and only want to impose your thinking on the world whether they like it or not because you know what is good for them better than they do. You don’t.

 

.

 

PZ Myers Crys Yet Another River

Pz and his date

Who says PZ isn’t a social butterfly?

 

 

It ends like this-

It was an incredibly repellent talk that was not improved in the past year, but only made uglier and more grotesque. He ignored all of my previous criticisms, answering them only by yelling louder. I coulda gagged at the end when he piously announced we all ought to be fighting together for the cause of reason…after an hour of caricaturing atheists as ignorant and smug posturing of “scientific skepticism” as the great good virtue.

That is the last paragraph of the latest bitching and moaning session from PZ Myers. I start with it because it does such a good job of painting a picture of PZ. He starts out complaining because the talk wasn’t all fresh and new. Someone might want to mention to PZ he has been  beating the hell out of the creationism horse for some time. When I go to a conference and he is a speaker, that’s when I take lunch or if its at the end of the day I can go watch a homeless guy lecture a trash can instead that way I’m gonna hear more wit and less egotistical banter.

PZ then follows up whimpering because all of his criticisms are ignored and there is yelling. At this point I think it is safe to assume PZ was yelled at by whoever raised him. He has over and over shown a strong dislike for people who speak passionately and he likes to claim they are yelling.  PZ also seems to think that if a person is yelling somehow they lose the ability to make a valid point about whatever they are yelling about. In some cases, like mine, I lost the ability to ever make a point or to even say anything worth consideration because I yelled one time.

PZ ends his crybaby tantrum by saying he is outraged to the point of actually gagging when the speaker suggests people should work together. After all the guy had voiced his opinion about the roles of atheists and skeptics. PZ felt atheists had somehow been slighted and then seemed to be unable to support any cooperation between people as a result of this outrage.

Well PZ has already been at the head of the line on several occasions so he could be one of the first people to reject any attempt to make it possible for atheists/skeptics to work together without any high school antics and childish name-calling. PZ has proven he has no desire to get along with anyone who has disagreed with him on A+ or on his brand of feminism.

After I read the pathetic butt-hurt sniveling post PZ wrote. I watched the video of the talk Jamy Ian Swiss gave PZ was so upset about. I didn’t have a problem with it. I had never heard of Jamy before PZ brought him to my attention. He fits in with many of the other reasonable people I have heard chime in on the complete bullshit going on among some skeptics/atheists. Barbra Drescher, Michael Shermer, DJ Grothe, Steve Novella. They have all kicked the shit out of PZ’s flawed logic directly or indirectly. Jamy can be added to that list now too.

Although Jamy doesn’t mention any specific names he talks about how people who claim skeptics are afraid of religion and do not confront religion due to that fear. Jamy says those people are either stupid or if they are not stupid then they must be liars because there is no truth in the claim. I would agree with this completely. You can not describe the majority of skeptics as afraid of anything. PZ takes the statement by Jamy personally and assumes it is about him. I can’t say PZ is correct that Jamy is talking about him but I can say the description fits, even PZ agrees with that.

The title of PZ’s post is I officially divorce myself from the skeptic movement  We can only hope that this holds up. The problem is PZ has removed himself from the atheist/skeptic movement quite some time ago. It is clear that PZ does not have the best interests of skeptics or atheists in mind. He fights almost any attempt to find a calm. If some parties do manage to act like mature adults and work things out PZ always has to add spin making it look like the people who disagrees with him somehow gave in or realized it was in their own best interest. It’s like he thinks that he and his regular commenters are actually causing some sort of change. The only thing I see changing is the amount of support for PZ and his unfair, biased and just plain willfully stupid behavior.

It is interesting how some have been critical of me because of my blogs about PZ when I am just answering to his lunacy yet they allow him to go along unchecked rambling that he is a scientist while his behavior reflects someone with no clue about how even basic skepticism  works and his scientific expertise is obviously limited to squishy stuff that lives in the ocean. All you have to do is listen to him speak about social issues for 2 minutes to realize he is in way over his head trying to dictate what is/isn’t acceptable.

And another interesting point is how PZ Myers claims to be focused on including everyone in the atheist movement. How can someone claim to want to do that and at the same time do everything possible to uninclude people who don’t agree with him? And I would love for someone to explain to me this trend towards refusal to work with people who don’t agree with you in any way but then how are you ever going to get the other people of the world to change their behavior? If you can’t be mature enough to work with people you have at least one thing in common with how are you ever going to communicate with people who have nothing in common with you? Is it different? YEA IT IS….IT’S HARDER. duh.

And how can PZ  expect anyone to believe he knows anything about social interaction when he has warned Justin Vacula if he tries to talk at the Women in Secularism Conference PZ is going to run away with his hands over his ears until he sees a mature authority figure and then he is going to report the hell out of Vacula!!! That will teach that son of a bitch to try and have a conversation with another adult! Great job PZ, way to demonstrate how skeptics and atheists can manage to convince the rest of the world we have a better world in mind if only they would listen I mean if only they would run away and report us?? I’m not sure how well that is going to work but what do I know? I’m  no scientist. Is it part of the scientific method to act like a chickenshit  whenever someone who disagrees with you tries to resolve the dispute by talking?  I didn’t go to college so don’t know for sure maybe PZ knows a real scientist we could ask unless he runs away from us too…..

Up next- PZ and Ray Comfort what do they have in common? Let’s count.

PeterPopoff.info

Peter Popoff

    Peter Popoff is a real piece of work. I was watching his youtube videos and listening to him tell people they could have their cancer cured by using his miracle spring water. I watched as his wife Liz read out testimonials from people claiming to have been helped by Peter Popoff. It made me sick to my stomach. Peter then suggested that disabled children could be cured by his miracle spring water. I have a disabled child and Peter Popoff isn’t good enough, human enough that I would allow him in the same room as my son. For him to claim, to promise, parents that they can heal their children if they support Peter Popoff and have enough faith (and money)  is utterly disgusting  to me.

    So instead of bitching (sorry SJWs ) and crying (sorry babies) I figured i would do something. I did this – http://peterpopoff.info

     It’s just starting and it will grow. Any help with getting this spread around would help prevent the spread of this moronic and selfish behavior. Thanks.

    Here are some past posts about Peter that were written back when he was sending me regular letters. Those have stopped now I can’t figure out why…..

Reapercussions: Peter Popoff- Pops Off At The Mouth

Peter Popoff- God’s LoanShark

Peter Popoff- The Profit

Peter Popoff-The Prophet of Profit

Reapercussions: Peter Popoff Stole My Money!

 

 

 

Get A Clue

 

 

clue-2-Recovered

And the game goes on..

Richard Carrier gave a talk at the American Atheist convention on A+.

  When I first heard Richard had given a talk on A+ I wasn’t surprised. I felt a little bad for him cause I knew he had done himself, or his dignity, at least a little bit of harm.  As of this posting the video has 9,682 views with 464 upvotes and 1,373 downvotes. Of course you can’t just by default say that proves much except when you read the comments you can see where the problem is with A+. It’s not so much the idea itself as it is the behaviors of the people who support it that killed it.

Richard says in his blog

Video of my talk at the 2013 American Atheists Convention (their 50th anniversary!) is now online. It is getting downvotes from the haters (even at one point more downs than ups). Please go watch that video (Atheism…Plus What?) and see if you can find anything in it that honestly deserves a downvote. Seriously. And if you don’t, please upvote it. Show the haters they don’t own the movement.

Others reading the comments (I can’t stomach such a task myself) tell me that the downvotes appear to be coming from people who didn’t even watch the video (or didn’t watch it all through). It appears, in fact, that these downvotes are there in an attempt to discourage people from watching the video, rather than representing disagreement with its actual content or quality or value.

Actually there is very little comment coming from people who seem uninformed on the subject. I think maybe the people who are describing the comments to Richard are trying to spare his feelings. That’s nice of them but not helpful. Richard needs a little reality check IMO. Maybe if Richard would actually take 5-7 minutes of his precious time to read the comment section he would get a better idea of why people don’t like his idea. The fact of the matter is there is plenty of information and public opinion available to figure out what the majority of people think about A+ and Richard Carrier’s version of it.

To say Richard Carrier is out of touch would be an understatement . Richard Carrier is more likely to reach out and touch the moon than he is to understand what A+ has done and what it has become.  It has become a non-issue. The A+ forum was a joke. Between the call to run out all them bad atheists and the demands everyone conform to a certain set of behaviors it never stood a chance. Look at the shit we had to go through just to make it so blacks could go to the same schools as whites, or what we are going through now just to allow people who love each other to make a life long commitment to that relationship.  Those are issues that should be very simple to figure out yet we have had to fight to get them accepted and there are still people today who don’t get it , those battles are not won. Some of the things that the A+ forum expected were never going to fly and they didn’t even get off the ground. It became a bunch of victims trying to make victims of others because they  thought boys and girls were two different genders.

There are still some things we need to work on of course. Feminism defined as women having the same rights and privileges as men needs to succeed and I am convinced it will because it makes sense and it benefits everyone.  There will always be some differences in what roles are preferred by each gender in society. As long as no one is being kept out or forced into then we should leave well enough alone. Just because there are more men than women or women than men active in something does not mean we need to take immediate actions and force a  50-50 split on it.

Richard is a busy guy. he has made that point over and over again on his blog. I would suggest that if Richard can not keep up with the facts about the subjects he chooses to speak about in public as if he was an authority on it, then he should leave it to people who have some knowledge of the subject. It is clear Richard does not have a good grasp  A+ and the effect it has had on atheists/skeptics.

Richard tries to provide a defense/explanation of his position by suggesting people listen to an interview he did with Tony Sobrado. You can find the post here.

I left the following comment on that interview-
My opinion after listening to the 15 of available audio is that Mr Carrier is in over his head. As much as he has contributed in other ways to atheism, dealing with social issues is not one of his strengths. Judging from the way he answers comments to his blogs Richard has an ego problem and needs to get over himself. Assuming you already know all the answers is a flawed position to start from and Richard Carrier should be well aware of that fact. If it was all as simple as he makes it out to be then the problem would have been solved way before Richard and the rest of the A+ crowd came along. Suggesting it is productive to avoid interacting with those who do not share your point of view also shows an ignorance of how progress has been made on social issues up to now. When you have something in common with other people you should build from that, not ignore that commonality and instead focus on finding what it is you can use to chastise  those people about.

There has been a considerable amount of pushback against people like PZ Myers, Adam Lee, Stephanie Zvan, and Ophelia Benson (and others)  and it’s not always because they are wrong on their original points. It is because of the way they present those points and the way they automatically condemn anyone who doesn’t agree with them and then when those people try to defend themselves against unfair judgements they are even more evil. Not only do they disagree with the original point, they are actively fighting against it now. How could those people be so evil and feel so much hate for women and minorities??! There isn’t any hate accept for the bias being demonstrated against them by people who claim to be all inclusive. They aren’t being reasonable, and they arent being fair. If you don’t believe me then take a look at the response from commenters to my apology to Stephanie Zvan on her blog.

There was no way I could win. If I didn’t apologize , I was a sexist jerk. When I did apologize it wasn’t worded correctly, or it wasn’t in enough places, or it wasn’t quick enough or my favorite- I just didn’t mean it. When you try to do the right thing and get a load of bullshit back in response to it what do you think is going to happen in the future? I did what I thought needed to be done. I directed my apology to Stephanie because that is who I was talking to. Anyone who has anything to say about it can suck it. It’s really none of their business. I don’t even know if Stephanie has accepted my apology since I can feel my IQ drop as I read through the comments on her blog. She may have addressed it, I don’t expect she would post about it like she did when I wronged her it seldom works like that. Although if I were to hear Adam Lee or PZ Myers even suggest they were maybe a bit unfair about some of the claims they made about myself, or anyone else, I would acknowledge their attempt to correct an injustice. I don’t think you’ll be reading about that anytime soon.