Tag Archives: FTB

Get Over It

 pzbully

 

This post is dedicated to ool0n and aratina who constantly refuse to accept there are things they can not change. I am one of those things.

I have been accused of being “obsessed” or told to “get over it” when it comes to my ‘projects’ where I am mocking others or when I post blogs pointing out certain behaviors.

 “How long does it take to get over being mad?”

I’ve thought about that question in the past and I can say while I may have been angry about some of the things said about me, the way some people think they can tell others what I mean or what  I am thinking, or things done to me, I don’t usually stay mad. That doesn’t mean I am okay with the behavior of those who have misrepresented or wronged me. It’s not as if anyone has said “You know I have reconsidered the things I’ve said/done. I have looked into some of the evidence that was provided and I may have been mistaken. Sorry bout that Reap. Let me post a public retraction just like I posted when I was telling people lies about you. Let me make things right” I don’t expect this to happen, that would be childish. It has happened in the past but I have not come to expect it.

However the event doesn’t just go away over time, it doesn’t unhappen. In fact in most cases the posts are still up and to anyone who happens upon them they may as well have just  occurred. Should a person be expected to get over a wrong that is still ongoing?  Take for example my banning by PZ Myers from his blog. Am I still angry about the actual ban? Not really. PZ proved he is a chickenshit and he can’t stand when people challenge him or don’t follow his directions. I accept that. I don’t think he even realizes how it makes him look when he does ban people for silly reasons. For some reason he seems to think he can do/say whatever he wants and because he believes in Darwinism or because so many people read his blog no one will think he is being petty, controlling, or censoring anyone. Or maybe he doesn’t care which indicates his claim of wanting a “better world” is nothing but bullshit unless a better world consists only of those who agree with him. Who the fuck wants a world where everyone thinks and believes the same way as a guy who teaches biology, live in an isolated area of Minnesota, and seems to have the social skills of a chicken gizzard? This is what PZ Myers sees as a “better world”? People who can relate to his life experiences and have formed the same opinions from those experiences? Seriously? It is really incredible for someone to behave like PZ but my pointing it out is not equal to anger it is just wrong, just like creationists are wrong. Is everyone who points that out mad? No, I don’t think so.

Putting the names of people he has banned on  a list along with his biased opinion of their character or his version of what their intent is/was is not productive, it is childish and unfair. There is no humor in it, it is not a lighthearted jab, there is no way for the people on the list to give their side of the story. It is just PZ being a controlling prick because he can. Those people deserve it for not doing as he said, how dare they! I think a person has the right to be angry as long as someone is going out of their way to keep the damage they have done ongoing. That doesn’t mean I’m mad either. I just feel you should not fault someone for it. If someone writes the word “racist” on your forehead you are probably gonna get pissed tell them to fuck off and clean your head off. After a while you will (and should) get over it. if every morning you wake up and someone has written racist on your forehead or they wrote it in permanent ink or maybe on your wall in a spot you can’t reach to remove it, I think that’s a bit different. Maybe you don’t give a shit what others say about you or you are okay with people describing you to other in a way that makes you seem hateful. That’s fine but can you expect everyone to be okay with that?

I have my own vision of a “better world”, see if you can tell the difference. I’d like to see everyone included in discussion. I would like to see people allow conversation to go on and allow it to continue to its conclusion. This is not to say no one ever gets banned for any reason but the tolerance of differing opinions should be much greater than we find in PZ’s comment section. I’d like to see less of people projecting their own thoughts onto other people’s opinions and putting words in the mouths of others. I’d like to see a return to having a sense of humor and a realization not everyone is going to think the same things are funny. Yea we are going to disagree and fight, big deal. The most important thing we can do is be honest and the easiest way to stay honest is to present both sides in the same place. Allow people to make up their own minds.

I would like to explain a few things for those people who think I should just “get over it” and accept that PZ Myers can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants in order to build his new “world order” or to make himself feel tough. The first thing to keep in mind is I’m not what this is about, there is a bigger picture and there are more people involved than me.  Some can not stand up for themselves.They just don’t know how or maybe don’t have a platform to do so. To allow dicks like PZ to continue to quiet those people or worse yet to tell the public those people are racist, rapists, or somehow think lessor of others when it has not been shown to be true, is irresponsible. I  am not going to allow someone who goes around being a bully to keep on doing so while I watch. It isn’t going to happen. I don’t do it in real life and I don’t do it on the net. I enjoy giving some people a taste of what they have been dishing out. I don’t have a desire to tell lies so lucky for me when people are being assholes it is painfully easy to mock them with their own words or actions. That is what I am doing. I am putting a fun-house mirror in front of those people and I will continue to do so until they start treating people with some respect or until I get bored. If you think it’s okay to allow people to trash, lie about, or intimidate others then you have a problem, get help.

If you don’t like my reaction to those people I suggest you get over it. There are some things that can be changed, if you disagree then watch and learn. After all there is really very little you can do about it except cry and complain and that doesn’t get anything done, does it?

Talking Things Out

   hypocrisy

 

Trigger warning- If you are one of those people that likes to whine about things in life that are unfair or you are paranoid that something is out to get you then this post may not be for you. If you have mental issues that hinder your ability to read things that may be totally random and you can not tell the difference between the threat posed by the written word and a direct threat posed by a real life situation….this post may not  be for you. If you fit one of the previous descriptions you are advised to seek the assistance of a mental health professional and above all DO NOT PROJECT YOUR INABILITY TO DEAL WITH LIFE ISSUES ON OTHER PEOPLE WHILE USING THE INTERNET.

Thank You

A guy named Michael Nugent is in the middle of an exchange of questions with Justin Vacula. Michael has written a blog post where he gives some examples of “nasty pushback”.

Michael asked Justin-

Which of the following specific examples of “nasty pushback” against some feminists on the Internet do you consider to be morally unjustified?

This question is followed by the mandatory trigger warning. Does it bother anyone else that this has become an accepted practice? I can understand a warning for adult content but where do we draw the line when it comes to warning people because they may be offended by foul words?  If a person wants to refrain from offending or disturbing anyone who may for whatever reason be too sensitive to handle certain words (these words could be related to just about anything so it’s impossible to give a good example) then there should be a trigger warning on everything they post.

Michael not only gives the initial warning but then warns everyone again. He acts like everyone reading has a man with a chainsaw standing behind them ready to start choppin’ as soon as anyone lets out  a sound. I wonder what kind of world it is that Michael lives in when you coddle people to this extreme. It’s almost as if he is  codependent.

He then gives 50 examples of quotes he picked from the slymepit. I assume he picked the examples to try and show volume rather than to give specific examples of differing types of comments that could be considered abusive. 50 seems like an unreasonable number of examples to me and could be interpreted as an attempt to single out the slymepit as a den of misogynist, sexist atheists.

There are a couple main reasons why Michael’s examples fail him. First one is that there is no context, no back-story, no explanation as to why his examples were posted. I know for a fact that some were in jest. Others were echoes of things said by members of A+ or FTB and were posted in the slymepit as mocking hypocrisy shown by those people. Several of his examples were exchanges between people who were known to not be offended by such words. Without context it would be difficult if not impossible to give an opinion that was any better than if Michael had just made up all of his examples. Of course some people would say that simply the use of certain words is misogyny or offends people no matter what the context.  Those people are just being silly. Context makes all the difference many times. Michael almost seems to assume Justin has psychic abilities and can get into the minds of the authors and explain what they were thinking and why. To have such expectations would be completely unreasonable. Even if Justin did go through every single example, by the time he was finished much time would have been wasted when it could have been spent on more important matters.

After reading Michael’s question and examples a person would probably get the impression that he was serious about all this gender slur and harmful language stuff. I know that was the impression I got from him….Then Michael posted this.

It is about the Atheist Ireland Forum Moderating Policy. It seems that there were several…actually make that numerous posts in that forum which didn’t meet the social justice standards Michael had set for others. A reader by the name Skepsheik had taken the time to point this out along with many examples.  Those examples were as bad if not worse than what Michael had presented to Justin.

 

I wondered how all these instances had gone unnoticed for such a long period of time in Michael Nugent’s own forum.  Justin wasn’t responsible for moderating the slymepit forum.  If he were to try and moderate he wouldn’t get anywhere because there is not an ‘edit button’ available to members of the slymepit.  Everything is public and forever unless it goes to unacceptable extreme, child porn would be an example of an unacceptable post.  Justin, while a regular contributor to the forum, was not it’s spokesperson either.  The diverse make-up of the slymepit forum made it difficult if not impossible for there to be consensus on almost anything.  Each individual is responsible for themselves. This was not the case with Michael Nugent  and his forum. From what I can tell Michael is an active member and moderator in the Atheist Ireland forum. He was, after all, the one who authored the post explaining the removal of improper content on the forum.

Shortly after the announcement about the removal of unacceptable content on the Atheist Ireland forum Skepsheik again contributes some information. It seems there is much, much more- Pharyngula-style rape torture and murder wishes, sexist language, racism, homophobia, animal rape to name a few. Michael has explained this as a way to protest a law involving blasphemy. He explains it like this-

There is, as you know, a distinction between something being illegal and something being immoral or unethical.

we have left them published on our website to make the point that we do not want blasphemy criminalised, even if we ourselves would not personally agree with all of the blasphemous comments that other people make.

 

While I don’t think it is nessecary to remove any of the content found on the Atheist Ireland forum, I do see an example of hypocrisy poking up from Michael Nugent’s position and his tone towards Justin Vacula when giving the slymepit quotes without any explanation about the circumstances of those posts.

I left the following comments on Michael Nugent’s post

First comment-

     I’m glad to hear this news and the timing is perfect considering the way you are drawing attention to posts on other forums that you consider abusive, shaming and very disturbing. I’ve always thought it better to clean up your own yard before bringing attention to the condition of your neighbors lawn. Good thing Skepsheik brought the issue to your attention or who knows how long those offensive postings would have stayed up considering no one brought them up prior to now. It’s only human to have biases, it’s been brought to your attention and you are addressing it, so everything turns out well.

Follow-up comment

Nevertheless, in the slymepit we make the point that we do not want blasphemy offensive language criminalized, even if we ourselves would not personally agree with all of the blasphemous offensive language comments that other people make.

See how that works Michael? You say blasphemy, we say offensive.
You really do need to figure out where you stand on all this cause after the latest list Skepsheik provided you really don’t have any right to be critical of anyone else. In other words- Your house is still dirty.

 

I don’t want to give the impression that Michael Nugent has no credibility due to his oversight. I do think he should be more aware of what is going on in his forum. I am looking forward to the discussion as a result of this debate. As I have said previously, very few of the FTB bloggers involved in this dispute or A+ members are willing to have an adult discussion about the expectations they have or the tactics they have employed to encourage others to do as they request without question. Michael has been the exception to this. Now if others would stop making childish demands be met or claim that their critics are not able to have a rational exchange and instead follow Michael Nugent’s example then maybe we could see a return to skepticism rather than McCarthyism.

You can find Justin Vacula’s blog here

Michael Nugent’s blog is here

 

 

 

PZ “boo-hoo” Myers and the failed experiment

Science works once again

Science works once again

PZ Myers, the bad boy of atheism. The guy who bans any critics who don’t bow to the will of his commenters (the horde-see below) with a gleeful laugh.  The fella who pissed off Catholics by using a cracker as his prop. The dude who has been screaming misogynist at anyone who opposes his brand of feminism. The dick who publicly posted that I was a racist, sexist, ranting asshole with no credibility and no right to criticize any of his ‘horde’. The list goes on. He has posted a blog that indicates he lives in a bubble (see here) Not only does he live in a bubble but he has something stuffed in his ears and a blindfold on too I guess.

 

PZ says-

I have a blog that ridicules creationism by dismantling their idiotic arguments, and that isn’t even obsessive about that…and definitely isn’t focused exclusively on just a few individuals.

 

Yea, he hits and runs. He doesn’t need to focus on any one person for long cause he bans them.  He does his damage and moves on.  PZ has made any exchange with him difficult if not impossible. You find him talking shit on his blog and twitter, never allowing anyone to answer his bullshit in the same forum as it was originally posted.  “You are free not to read” he says. Yea but everyone else reads it.  Does PZ think people know when he is incorrect?  Does PZ Myers ever admit he is wrong when he makes claims about a person’s character?  Does PZ think no one believes a word he says? I would assume people who read PZ will usually (unless they know better) take his word as accurate and credible.  He may know something about biology, after all he went to school to learn it. He has studied it for years. He can not say the same about the people he has called stupid assholes or idiots. He can not claim the same knowledge about all the members of the slymepit who he has described as misogynists, and evil. No one from the forum is even allowed to comment on PZ’s blog on any level without being banned.

Another way PZ defends his being a dick to people on his blog is by telling people “You are free to create you own blog on blogger or create a youtube channel”. People can then answer to all the ways PZ has been wrong or a jerk. Problem there is the audience that needs to hear it most probably never will. I am lucky because I have an audience for my blog and my podcast has a decent listener base but not everyone has that. I doubt you would hear PZ say I had anyone reading or listening to me. My show is shit according to him. Just like when he said Justin Vacula was no leader in the atheist movement. So PZ claims Justin is a nobody in the movement and then trashes him? How is that fair? Unless PZ is retarded he is well aware that some of the people he trashes could never respond in a way that could reach the same audience.  That is called being a bully, harassing someone who can’t defend themselves in a manner equal to your attack  There is one thing about the internet, once you put something on it, it never goes away completely.  That means you should be responsible when posting anything that could tarnish a person’s reputation or do them harm.  PZ has an ego problem, he thinks he is infallible, he is tragically mistaken.

Pz Myers says

It wasn’t until I annoyed a subset of atheists that the real harassment began. Serious harassment. People who have no lives and think the most important thing to do every day is to pour out their hatred for me, or Rebecca Watson, or Ophelia Benson, or anyone on the Atheism+ forum. I’m not talking principled disagreement or even stupid disagreement: I mean commitment to do any dumbass thing they can to lash out, and being driven by hatred for a few people.

 

I’ve made this point before a long time ago. PZ Myers started fucking with the wrong group of people when he started being a dick to atheists/skeptics.  He is  too dumb to understand the difference between being a dick to people who believe in something that is easy to prove false and being a dick to people because they have a different opinion on social issues. The people he has been talking shit about aren’t wrong just because they don’t agree with him. Most of the people who are critical are critical of his methods not his goals anyways. Why PZ is too stupid to figure this out after all this time I don’t know but it indicates he may be too damn lazy to listen to anyone’s side of things but his. He has a habit of not listening to the opposing view and that results in stupidity, duh PZ.

 

PZ can’t say I didn’t warn him. I told him the push-back grows each day.  The blog posts that are telling the truth about his actions are growing in numbers. The youtube videos are piling up, head high. The number of people  who have been treated like shit by “the horde” (also known as the mighty morons) grows too. People who contribute nothing like Caine and Brownian (Anthony K) are just another aspect of the problem PZ can’t quite grasp. There are people who are killing any productive discussion and they are regulars in his comment section.  He strokes them like they are his pets and they purrrrrrr things like “fuck off you stupid fuck, go die slowly”

horde

OOOOH… SCARY!

I warned him about this fallout but he dismissed my comment, disemvoweled it, then piled some more insults on top.  That’s fine, he can do that and I can address everything he does that is unfair, rude, unproductive, and harmful to the truth, which is what I have been doing.  Some people want to call me obsessed but I’m obsessed with addressing dishonesty, not PZ. It doesn’t matter who it is really. I just consider PZ  Myers to be a priority because he is harmful from the inside and that has the potential to do the most damage to what most atheists and skeptics have been working towards. He has already undermined anything he has contributed. He has made it clear it is his way or no way, that is a stupid and dangerous road to take. He no longer deserves to have a hand on  the wheel and we should all be removing his fingers from it one by one.

Every single person who refuses to discuss differences in opinions is avoiding that conversation for a reason. If people like Stephanie Zvan thought she could win an argument in a public forum she would do it in a minute. She would be stupid not to, why wouldn’t she want to provide evidence that she was correct?  Does she believe in social change or not?  Adam Lee wants to be a household name you would think he would rush to the front of the line but after getting his ass kicked so thoroughly by Al Stefanelli I guess we can give him a pass.  The Lousy Canuck  should be jumping at the chance to shut down any silly opposition to his blog posts or positions.  Instead when invited to do so we hear crickets or childish demands that must be met before any conversation will take place. NEWS FLASH- There is a reason for that. can you guess what it is? Shhhhh. no we don’t want to talk about that either. Let’s listen to the crickets they speak volumes.

Minnesota Farmers: Blogger PZ Myers Puts Livestock at Risk With Straw Use

The following is a guest blog and has been posted with the full permission of the author.

February 22, 2013
Staff reports

Image7

Blogger PZ Myers visits a Minnesota farm to select straw for use in his arguments

MINNEAPOLIS, Minnesota — A spokesman for the Minnesota Farmers Union is concerned about a shortage of straw and
hay available for agricultural purposes around the state—and he is blaming PZ
Myers for the problem.

Myers, a prolific blogger and professor of biology at the University of Minnesota, Morris, has been accused of hoarding hay and straw for use in constructing his straw man arguments and logical fallacies. While some of the larger organizations such as the Minnesota Farm Network have been reluctant to criticize Myers out of fear of being targeted on his often-vitriolic blog, others are speaking out.

“Every time he writes something outside of his field [of biology], Myers uses all of the available straw for miles around” to craft his arguments, said Farmer’s Union representative Mike Helms. “I’m not saying he doesn’t have a right to buy straw and hay—it’s a free country and all that. But the fact is our farmers and horses need it. He can’t use that much straw [an estimated 3,000 bales per month last year] and not expect it to affect our local ecology and economy. We use straw for feeding our livestock and horses, bedding, and fuel. He’s just using it to make faulty arguments. Where’s the justice in that?”

Helms added that other quasi-famous pundits have been drawn to the area in search of straw for their own arguments (conservative writer Ann Coulter and creationist William Dembksi are
frequent customers), but that Myers is by far the most active.

Hardest hit are the farming communities southwest of Minneapolis and those north of St. Cloud. The regional shortage has caused the price of hay to triple, and additional straw is being brought in from as far away as Nebraska. One area man said he was making $500 per week hauling hay from Omaha and reselling it. But many farming families can’t afford to pay a premium for straw, and grouse that Myers is unfairly cornering the market for his personal projects while their horses and cows go hungry.

Myers, once known for his work as a biologist, has in recent years become most prominent for his strident criticism of religion, skepticism, and almost anything else he disagrees with. In a famous incident in 2009, Myers overheard a young woman mention that she was a staunch vegetarian, to which he immediately responded: “You know, Hitler was a vegetarian… What other Nazi policies do you agree with?” Myers’s blatant logical fallacies have been cataloged by dozens of people including scientist-and-best-selling authors Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins—and most recently by a bored fifth-grader in Duluth who happened to be skimming Myers’s “Pharyngula” blog for a school project.

Despite his dismissive tone and having yet to publish a single book, PZ Myers has attracted legions of fans. In an article in the September 2008 print issue of Movieline magazine, screenwriter Ed Naha acknowledged Myers as an important inspiration for his film Troll and its later sequels. “The special effects may have been kind of cheesy, but the script was so strong because it came from real life,” Naha said. “I’d read PZ’s stuff, and the script wrote itself, it was pure gold. He was one of the biggest trolls, even back then.” Indeed, Myers earned the distinction of being named the “shepherd of Internet trolls” by Sam Harris earlier this year.

Republican political strategists—themselves well versed in straw man fallacies—have long expressed admiration for Myers’s uncanny ability to fabricate controversy from thin air and grossly mischaracterize his opponents. Wilson Moot, a protégé of Karl Rove and the chief writer of Mitt Romney’s 2012 presidential campaign ads, is a particular fan. One of Moot’s best-known ads took President Obama’s statement “You didn’t build that” out of context (he was clearly referring to national infrastructure including roads and bridges) and claimed that it was instead
an attack on small business owners. “Myers’s ability to twist and spin the facts and misinterpret otherwise clear arguments by others is unparalleled,” Moot said in a recent Washington Weekly interview. “I’m good, but let’s be honest: Myers is in his own class. Up is down, black is white, night is day—if he says it is. If we’d had him on our campaign I really think we could have nailed Obama on that Muslim thing and won the White House.”

Myers could not be reached for comment; a spokesman said he was in Chicago, negotiating the purchase of industrial cranes to assist with assembling even larger straw man arguments later this year. “His goal,” the spokesman said, “is to make a straw man so big and glorious that it blots out the sun.”

Artists rendering of what would occur if PZ Myers ever makes it to the "big city"

Artists rendering of what would occur if PZ Myers ever makes it to the “big city”

Freethought Censorship

 

images.youtube

 

So I was listening to PZ Myers talk about people who disagree with him and allowing comments on his internet posts. PZ made the point that it was in no way censorship, anyone was free to say whatever they wanted on their own blog/website. The obvious flaw in that logic is Joe Normal has no where near the following PZ has. If PZ says something that is untrue maybe(just an example) 5000 people read it. If that untruth is an accusation against your character it’s possible 5000 people have just been convinced you hate feminism and women. Or maybe just half, 2500 read the Pharngula blog post and believe what it says about you being a racist. Does anyone else see the problem with this? Most bloggers would have a tough time reaching the number of people PZ does much less the same people who read the blog. You may never see/meet any of those people but since the people reading are the types of people you associate with online, at conventions, and at local meetup gatherings, there is a stronger likelihood you will. I’m not interested in defending myself from bullshit the inept PZ Myers thinks is true simply because somebody (like rebecca watson) told him so. So we see the same kind of behavior demonstrated by Rush Limbaugh when he called Sandra Fluke a slut. You have a prominent blogger who is attacking a lessor known person who doesn’t have the ability to defend themselves. How many people has PZ or his legion of loons attacked in this manner?
Now, getting back to my original point….PZ tells people to create their own pages, they can then say whatever they want about him cause he doesn’t care.  I posted the video you see below to youtube this week. It was up one day before it was flagged for removal by viewers. I suppose I should mention PZ also blogged to complain about the video and make it sound as if I had some sort of mental illness or obsession. The video is simply my choice of style to disagree with PZ. You may not care for it, that’s fine. You may think it is mean but I don’t agree. It is a parody. The amount of ridicule it projects is appropriate IMO. PZ Myers isn’t interested in correcting his comments about my character, in fact he has continued to pile on more falsehoods. PZ Myers has made it clear he has no interest in discussing anything with slymeballs like me. He should not be surprised when he is mocked then because there is nothing to lose and it’s not as if he has shown an ounce of respect to any of his critics.
While I can’t say it was PZ himself who flagged the video it was surly his supporters. This gives an example of the type of thinking PZ Myers promotes. If you can’t ban ’em, scare ’em, or bully them then censor them whatever way you can.

pzcry
It really is a dangerous and disturbing trend we used to only see in religious believers. Somehow I doubt PZ will be finding fault with the censorship of the video because it was about him. I can already hear him justifying the removal because it was against the TOS as if it is okay. The problem is if the same tactics were used against him the story would not be the same.  As a reaction to the attempt to shut me up I have resolved to post the video on several other video hosting sites and will be making a follow up.  Let it be known that I am not going to be censored , intimidated, or libeled into being quiet.

censor

Notice of TOS violation due to flagging

To whoever did flag the video- Nice job, great way to promote expression and celebrate the freedom we all hold dear. Hopefully no one ever attempts to do the same to you, if that does happen let me know and I will back you up and support your right to free expression.

Here is the video the damn thing just won’t go away…

PZ Myers wraps it up

PZ Myers wraps it up by reapsowradio