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Non-atheism rant
just gotta get this off me chest!

OK, I have a forum that I go to quite often of parents of multiple children. I don't have the required 4 but I'm friends with someone who does and I just kinda ended up there.

Now, with this many married folks, it is inevitable that occasionally people will get divorced. Many of the divorcing women seem to be married to men with varying degrees of control issues.


They hire lawyers and then refuse to let the lawyers do the (unemotional) talking for them! They allow themselves to get dragged down into minor points, they allow themselves to get really emotionally distraught, they allow their spouse to make demands for property, access to the children, etc. before it's even gone to court.

Sigh...I get so frustrated, they ask for advice, and my advice is ALWAYS "once you have made the decision to seperate, cease direct communication!" Then they whine "but it's faster if I don't go through the lawyer"-WHO CARES?!?! Why are they concerned about the time it takes? Why is their spouses time so important?

I can't see why anyone can make the decision to leave someone that bullies or even physically abuses them, and then thinks that this same individual is going to be able to come to an amicable solution to child access and property before the divorce goes to court.

I'll be back later-being pestered by child and cats.
Today for instance-when I advised to stop talking to him, she says "I'm not talking to him. He emailed me and I emailed him back and told him that he can't tell me who can be in the house"

WHAT THE FUCK DOES SHE THINK THAT IS?!?! That IS talking to him! So I rephrased it and said "cease COMMUNICATING with him directly".

They get drawn into these arguments over stupid things, they get bullied into letting their spouse empty the house of furnishings and supplies even though they're the ones with the kids to take care of, and then they come crying that they have nothing because their husband took it. GAH!!!!

They can't break out of being "compliant wife who always smooths things over so he doesn't get upset" as if, once you're divorcing the self-centered pinhead, it MATTERS whether he's upset. Keep the local police station on speed dial and haul his ass to jail a few times and he'll get the fuckin' point!
One thing I notice is that there seems to be a certain type of woman who gets involved with guys who have control issues. Where most would walk away from bickering and arguement these women tend to be drawn to it then like to complain about it.
And they seem to like complaining to ME!

Seriously, women like that are like moths to a flame with me. I don't know why. They all have loads of excuses why this mans behavior is perfectly acceptable, or if not acceptable, why they're not going to do anything about it THIS TIME.

Some people enjoy wallowing in it. They like to argue. They have inner conflicts and feel guilty (' it's partly my fault'), so they assuage that by making themselves unhappy. Some people like being miserable, because they think they deserve it.

schmoo: They must like the responses you give them. You must make them feel better or they wouldn't do it.

Wow, I just found out that this site has the same problem that did; to wit, when it sees a single apostrophe and a closed parenthesis together, it makes a smilie. No big deal.
Edited by catman on 08/14/2008 16:56
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
I agree with Seeker that it seems there are certain 'kinds' of women who are attracted to bully men, or even certain men who are attracted to bully women.

Either way, it sounds like this woman is making the same types of excuses woman make early on in abusive relationships when people are urging them to leave and the women come up with every excuse in the book about why they can't or shouldn't, except that now it's just much later down the road and she hasn't learned to stop making excuses for him, or herself.

Maybe that's just part of the over-all personality, or characteristics, of someone who gets caught up in the cycle of a relationship with a bully.
There are various reason for such behavior. It's different for each person. For me it was fear. For some it is about trying to be right and get back a measure of control in their lives.

It's futile, but it's human nature to keep doing it. I fell into the cycle when I left my first husband. He was an abuser. Even though I knew better, I would keep answering that damned phone and end up in fights with him. He used my fear of him being around my son to force me to keep interacting with him. He didn't care about my son (yes I say MY, not ours because he was never a proper father, he was nothing more than a sperm donor.) It took a couple of years before I finally stopped allowing him to manipulate me. He would threaten to enforce his visitation rights and I would end up having to talk with him and try to get along so he wouldn't try to see my son without me being there. I knew good an well he was using visitation as a ploy to keep seeing me and he cared nothing about my child, which is exactly why I would rather die than allow him one second alone with my child.

My case was unusual though, I put my child's welfare above my own and I willingly put up with the turmoil and emotional abuse to keep my ex from being alone with my child. There's a very long story about why the prick still had visitation rights, which involves a crooked judge, (who played golf with the ex's lawyer), overturning our divorce and claiming that just because R beat me on a regular basis didn't mean he was a threat to the child? WTF!!!?? It took three years of costly court battles to finally get the divorce legalized because the abusive bastard didn't want to let go of his favorite victim (me).

We eventually terminated his parental rights and he is no longer legally my child's father, but it took years and a lot of hell to do so. During the years he had legal rights to my son I put up with unbelievable drama and abuse to keep him from being alone with my child. I knew my son's life would be in danger if he had him alone, so I did whatever I had to to keep that from happening.

It is possible that a few of the women you speak to are trapped in a similar situation, but most of them are just trapped in a struggle for dominance. Many women are shitty parents and don't really care about their children's welfare, they care about winning the fight and being's a control thing. You can which type you're dealing with because the women who keep dealing with an abuser because of the children do so because they are terrified of the asshole being alone with the kids. You see that fear reflected in everything they say and do.

The ones who don't mind the jerk(ette) being alone with the kids but they endlessly fight with him/her, are just assholes themselves who want the drama and want to keep fighting to prove they are *right* and *better* than the ex-partner.

Editing to add...I forgot to mention that my situation happened over 20 years ago. It was my first husband, I was very young. He is my eldest son's biological father, not my youngest son's. When my current husband and I were separated for three years we were still friends and I never feared him doing any kind of harm to Anthony. In fact, as some of you remember, William and I still lived together even though we were emotionally separated. It was a completely different kind of situation. We were separated because he cheated three times and could not control his lying. I didn't want anyone to misunderstand and think I was referring to William above. William would never harm the boys, at least not physically. (He did harm them emotionally by betraying and lying though).
Edited by RayvenAlandria on 08/14/2008 22:21
Rayven, that's one hell of a story. I hope you and William have smoothed out all the jagged edges. I have the utmost respect for your devotion to the welfare of your son when you were married to the abuser.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
Thanks catman. My children come before anything else in my life, including myself. I put their welfare first in both of my marriages. If all parents did that they would have a good marriage because they wouldn't be selfish or have an imbalance where one is selfish and one is constantly being shit on. Until recently William was a selfish ass and didn't put the kids first, time will tell if he's really changed or not. He seems to have learned from his mistakes, but the damage has already been done, things will never be what they should have been.

I decided to stay with William because Anthony and I think it is the best decision. It is a decision we made together. Anthony and I weighed the pros and cons and decided we'd rather stay married to William than have me go back to work and be gone all the time. I like being around my kids. I value that precious time more than anything and I wish Ray and Kim (FreakMeow) lived close enough for me to see them on a regular basis. It sux that they live so far away.

I would like to say William and I smoothed everything out, but the marriage isn't what it should have been. It's okay, but way too much agony occurred for Anthony and I to just get over it. We can be friends with William but we'll never respect him, no matter how hard we try to make ourselves. You just can't get over that kind of pain. William and I still do not have the type of marriage I envisioned fifteen years ago, but I made the decision to stay with him so I make our marriage as good as it can be. I do not treat him the way he deserves to be treated, I don't abuse or mistreat him because of what he's done in the past. Someone looking in from the outside wouldn't have a clue we have anything but a great marriage. We get along well because I choose to make sure we do. I deal with my pain and yes, I feel more single than married, so sometimes I feel lonely and wish life had been different for me. (We are more like best friends than a married couple, but truthfully, it's a better relationship than most married people have, so I can accept it).

William is a happy, no an ecstatic, clam that we decided to stay with him but for Anthony and I it's more like the crappy job we have to endure so that we can spend time together and I can continue to homeschool him. We decided that the trade-off is worth it.

I told William I will not agree to being monogamous with him. He had three chances, that's enough. If I meet someone I want to date, I will date them, but to be honest, I'm not really looking. If a friendship grows, fine, but it's not all that important to me that one does. I don't know, maybe I've been put through the emotional wringer so much I just want to be left alone now. LOL Plus, friends are just as important as lovers anyway, so they may be enough to keep me happy. I guess time will tell on that one too.
RayvenAlandria wrote:...maybe I've been put through the emotional wringer so much I just want to be left alone now. LOL Plus, friends are just as important as lovers anyway, so they may be enough to keep me happy. I guess time will tell on that one too.
That's the conclusion I came to a few years ago. It feels good to think that all the angst is in the past. Whether it really is or not remains to be seen. It's better to let things happen than to try too hard to force them.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
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