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The Book of Mormon
JohnH
I have been reading an excellent book “American Massacre” by Sally Denton. It relates the massacre of some 120 immigrants in 1857 in mormon country by mormon militias.

It starts with an abbreviated history of the mormon religion, which reminded me of something that has troubled me for a long time.

It is one thing to believe in nonsense that was written down 1500 to 2000 years ago for which there is little historical verification one way or another. It is to me an entirely different thing to believe in nonsense that is only 150+ years old, which has a known and extremely suspect history.

From the beginning, the history of the “book of mormon” screams fraud. The golden plates (forget that they came from an angel named moroni), which no one else could look at, which were written in an unknown language and translated by Smith staring at a rock in a hat.

The continued and continuing history of mormonism is not much different than any other religion. I recognize that anyone who pays much attention to the history of any organized religion finds the same sort of thing that the mormon religion has been involved in.

It is the fact that the underlying source is so obviously a fraud that I find troubling. How can one who thinks for more then 30 seconds accept any tenet that is based on that book.
 
seeker
Like any other scam it counts on intellectual laziness. Anyone who thinks about Mormanism could poke holes in it but you take a bunch of people who have spent their lives being conditioned to believe the ridiculous stories in the bible and they will sit there and say, 'hmmm sounds plausible'
 
catman
JohnH: I couldn't agree more. The relative youth of Mormonism and its obvious fraudulence causes me to be concerned about the mental health of the people who believe it to be true.
 
Theory_Execution
On the stone(s), hat and Gold plate book(s).

He apparently lost the first good book and needed another to create a new dictated transcript, because the smart wife of the rich fool who funded its early development conspired to hide the initial works to test his credibility, and see if he could reproduce the same text word for word. Solution - he had misplaced the initial book, but was given a separate different, but similar book.

Someone mentioned that a gold plate book of that size would require a truck to lift. But in the story he held the book in his hat (out of sight from his sponsor) as he read through these stones to translate.

I cannot see one unbelieveable bit in it.
 
Bob of QF
South Park had a very excellent expose on Mormonism and it's roots.

And for once? S.P. was not over the top-- Mormonism itself is, S.P. just told the bald-faced facts about how it started.

 
Bob of QF
catman wrote:
JohnH: I couldn't agree more. The relative youth of Mormonism and its obvious fraudulence causes me to be concerned about the mental health of the people who believe it to be true.


I cut them the same slack I cut for any believer-of-the-silly:

Like all religions, they were indoctrinated into the cult from a very early age, when their minds were defenseless.

And like all 'successful'* cults, the indoctrination brainwashing is highly effective, and the cult itself is carefully crafted** to prevent close inspection by critical thinking.

As I often declare on Topix: everyone is born an atheist-- why do you think all 'successful'* religions have traditions and ceremonies about newborns?

_______________

* by 'successful', I mean surviving past the initial leader's death

** by 'carefully crafted', I'm not invoking some amazing foresight on the part of the religion's creators, but rather simple social 'evolution' in that what works to indoctrinate brainwash new converts is retained, and what does not work is dumped, in a sort of quazi 'survival of the most effective methods'.
 
Doubting Thomas
I'm not sure which is worse, holding on to thousands-year-old beliefs or hundreds-years-old beliefs. It's obvious that both mainstream Christianity and Mormonism are both frauds, one has just been around far longer than the other. But is it more foolish to believe what some guy claimed to have read out of a hat, or something a bunch of bronze-age goatherders wrote down thousands of years earlier? I think I'll stick with believing what logic and the scientific method tells us about the world & universe.

About John Smith translating a second book, the story was that either the angel or God was angry with him for allowing the book to be hidden from him, so the angel gave him a second, different book to translate, thereby proving once and for all that it definitely came from God. Funny how people can actually believe that stuff.
 
JohnH
My point was and continues to be that the fraud of the main three religions is at least shrouded in the passage of time.

The fraud of mormonism is not and is clearly more transparent to people who think for a moment. I never intended to suggest that one was more or less fraudulent only that in the one case it is more obvious.
 
derF
Having lived under the shadow of Mormonism for many years, (Born in Utah and raised in south eastern Idaho, home of the two largest Mormon Tabernacles in existence.) I was enveloped in the mob mentality that is the Mormon religion. I was originally turned off by the religion not by its questionable origins but by its breathtaking arrogance.

As depicted in South Park your every day Mormons are decent enough folks but an underlying sense of superiority is not far beneath the surface. That and the fact that records prove that old Joe Smith was nothing more than a con-man, thief and liar turned me not only against Mormonism but religion altogether. I think my conversion was easier than that of former Christians, Jews and Muslims because the origins of Mormonism are so recent and easily repudiated.

I think Seeker hit the nail on the head when he identified intellectual laziness as the reason that religion continues to flourish. You can remove religion from the debate altogether and still blame intellectual laziness for many of the problems facing society (particularly American) today. Just look at all the idiots who are so quick to embrace the so called government death panels, who think that Obama wasn't born in America and who buy in whole heartedly to the lies of Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck.

Why waste energy persuing facts when opinions are readily available with no effort whatsoever?
 
catman
I differ slightly on the 'intellectual laziness' point. I don't think it's that so much as the idea that the realm of gods is beyond our capacity to understand. Therefore, intellectual analysis is not applicable. Religion gets a free pass.
Edited by catman on 04/03/2010 02:34
 
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