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Arizona Immigration Bill
JohnH
I am surprised no one has commented on the recent bill from Arizona making it legal for the state police (in all its forms) to ask for appropriate papers from someone who might be an illegal alien.

I know illegal immigration is a touchy and difficult subject. I make no attempt to discuss all the issues about that. I would like however to make some personal observations.

My daughter in law is ethnic mexican. She is a citizen by birth. She is also easily identifiable as ethnic mexican. Is she at risk if she travels in Arizona without her passport.

Recently with my son we traveled to Mexico. At the airport when entering I was amazed at the number of people who I would have thought were Mexican who were traveling with US passports. I am talking cowboy boots, jeans, straw cowboy hats and plaid shirts, the same people one sees lining up for day labor all across the southwest and elsewhere in this country.

I lived for a while in New Mexico. Similar to much of the southwest there were ethnic mexicans living there who's families have been in the area since before it was US territory. Some of them lived in isolated communities where learning english was not necessary for daily life (this has probably changed dramatically in the intervening years).

I lived or worked in San Francisco for some 35 years. I knew asian (primarily ethnic chinese) coworkers who's parents never learned english because living in chinatown they did not need to. Some of them found out when Reagan had a universal amnesty in 1986 that in fact they had been living under a false name for years because their parents were illegal.

When I lived in San Francisco I noticed that there were many ethnic Irish who were obviously new immigrants, there continue to be for that matter all over the bay area. I have often thought that probably a high percentage of them were illegal, frankly without certainty. They, whatever their actual immigrant status, have nothing to worry about because they can fit in.

I often have wondered at the legality of my mothers parents immigration to the US. The last time I checked it seemed like they came in when there were no quota's on immigration from northern europe, but why then did they cross from Canada into northern Minnesota and take up with family members.

I myself am only third generation on my fathers side and second on my mothers. We are, even native americans if you want to go back far enough, all immigrants here.
 
Skeeve
It is a fine example of the Republican meme, "less government".

Except that it isn't.

It's exactly what they accuse Obama of trying to do.

BIOKIYAAR.

I don't see it lasting through the first court appeals. It is wayyyyyy to broad.
 
seeker
Its sad but having lived in Arizona this doesn't come as a surprise. The truly pathetic part of all of this is that nobody is really going after the companies that employ illegal immigrants. If the had no jobs here they wouldn't come here.

Its always easier to abuse the poor than to deny the wealthy


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Hypatia
It's amazing to me that they really thought this was going to be an effective, good, productive way to deal with this situation, that they didn't just wait until they'd come up with a better answer. They should have known this would cause people to protest, and maybe they expected that, I don't know.

I don't know what the solution/s is for the immigration situation, but I'm sure it isn't this.


JohnH wrote:
I am surprised no one has commented on the recent bill from Arizona making it legal for the state police (in all its forms) to ask for appropriate papers from someone who might be an illegal alien.

I know illegal immigration is a touchy and difficult subject. I make no attempt to discuss all the issues about that. I would like however to make some personal observations.

My daughter in law is ethnic mexican. She is a citizen by birth. She is also easily identifiable as ethnic mexican. Is she at risk if she travels in Arizona without her passport.

Recently with my son we traveled to Mexico. At the airport when entering I was amazed at the number of people who I would have thought were Mexican who were traveling with US passports. I am talking cowboy boots, jeans, straw cowboy hats and plaid shirts, the same people one sees lining up for day labor all across the southwest and elsewhere in this country.

I lived for a while in New Mexico. Similar to much of the southwest there were ethnic mexicans living there who's families have been in the area since before it was US territory. Some of them lived in isolated communities where learning english was not necessary for daily life (this has probably changed dramatically in the intervening years).

I lived or worked in San Francisco for some 35 years. I knew asian (primarily ethnic chinese) coworkers who's parents never learned english because living in chinatown they did not need to. Some of them found out when Reagan had a universal amnesty in 1986 that in fact they had been living under a false name for years because their parents were illegal.

When I lived in San Francisco I noticed that there were many ethnic Irish who were obviously new immigrants, there continue to be for that matter all over the bay area. I have often thought that probably a high percentage of them were illegal, frankly without certainty. They, whatever their actual immigrant status, have nothing to worry about because they can fit in.

I often have wondered at the legality of my mothers parents immigration to the US. The last time I checked it seemed like they came in when there were no quota's on immigration from northern europe, but why then did they cross from Canada into northern Minnesota and take up with family members.

I myself am only third generation on my fathers side and second on my mothers. We are, even native americans if you want to go back far enough, all immigrants here.


There are still many, many people in areas like Española that still speak only spanish and don't know English. But mostly that's the older generations. The majority of the newer generations speak at least English and Spanish.
 
Bob of QF
A classic case of selfish, "I got MINE, so fuck anyone else trying to get THEIRS" attitude...

...for the majority of Americans are still basically immigrants...

<gag>
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Max
As someone who has lived in Arizona for fourteen years, I can not tell you how embarrassing it is to be associated with this state. This is a law worthy of the Schutzstaffel.
I believe we have already had a truck driver from California thrown in a prison cell for four hours because the "reasonable suspicion" that the cop had for arresting him was that the trucker's mother was from Mexico. He was arrested for not carrying his birth certificate on him, even after providing a driver's license and social security number. I don't even know where my birth certificate is at the moment.
It amazes me that people are willing to defend this as a defense against illegal immigrants. It is not. It targets legal immigrants or those that look like them for not carrying around absurd amounts of identification that no one has on them.
Edited by Max on 04/29/2010 01:28
 
catman
It's going to hit Arizona right in the pocketbook. Mexico has already announced a travel advisory, 2-3 million Mexicans visit AZ annually, and AZ's main industry is tourism. I predict it will be repealed.

Max: Good to see a post from you! Wassup?
 
derF
I bet that this law is rescinded no later than this fall. I say that because if they don't rescind it before summer the state's businessmen will revolt.
Edited by derF on 04/29/2010 22:35
 
Max
catman wrote:
It's going to hit Arizona right in the pocketbook. Mexico has already announced a travel advisory, 2-3 million Mexicans visit AZ annually, and AZ's main industry is tourism. I predict it will be repealed.

Max: Good to see a post from you! Wassup?


Hey Catman, I'm doing good. How've you been? I keep meaning to post here more, but I keep passing by the link in my bookmarks.
 
catman
Max: I'm doing as well as can be expected. I'd like to be playing more than I am, but the music business is circling the drain.

Schmoo has been back for a few posts, but it looks like she's gone again. I hope you'll refrain from "passing by the link"! Not many of the old gang are still here.
 
derF
catman wrote:
Max: I'm doing as well as can be expected. I'd like to be playing more than I am, but the music business is circling the drain.

Schmoo has been back for a few posts, but it looks like she's gone again. I hope you'll refrain from "passing by the link"! Not many of the old gang are still here.


Hey, Max! Good to see some of the old regulars return as always. Like Catman says, there aren't a lot of the old gang left. If you run across any of them remind them that we are still here and give em' a link! And, stick around!
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Skeeve
I miss Max's Asian fantasy posts. Grin
 
Skeeve


From TheSecondCityNetwork
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
catman
Heh, heh. Good! I miss Max's 'Asian fantasy posts' too. Wink
 
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