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Arizona congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot.
Max
The congresswoman representing my congressional district, Democrat Gabrielle Giffords, has just been shot in the head. Though I had heard she was originally dead, reports now seem to indicate that she might make it. A judge and 9-year old girl, however, were killed. This happened outside a Safeway that is less than two and a half miles from my house; ambulances and helicopters could be heard earlier. This same little shopping center at the corner of Oracle and Ina road is where I go to get my mail. My mother almost went there this morning to pick some things up. Giffords is now apparently fighting to survive in a hospital three miles down the road from my house. More sad news from this sad state.
Edited by Max on 01/08/2011 19:44
 
Bob of QF
That's a damn shame.

Truly.

I'm always saddened to hear of >>anyone<< who is needlessly killed and/or injured.

Regardless of who they were/are in life.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
seeker
I think this is an inevitable consequence of Republican political tactics. They have pushed the hate rhetoric so far that it was just a matter of time before some unstable loony acted out against what he might perceive as 'the liberals'.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Hypatia
This sucks so much. Such an unnecessary tragedy.

I guess I'm not really surprised to see that the Phelps' are planning to protest the funerals of the people killed in AZ.

http://www.huffin...06319.html

Westboro Baptist Church, the Topeka church known for its inflammatory anti-gay protests, plans to picket the funerals of the six people gunned down in Arizona on Saturday.

In a flier posted on its web site, the controversial church writes, "THANK GOD FOR THE SHOOTER -- 6 DEAD!" The message continues:

God appointed this rod for your sins! God sent the shooter! This hateful nation unleashed violent veterans on the servants of God at WBC--hoping to silence our kind warning to obey God and flee the wrath to come.


Seems gawd is angry this time for an entirely new reason:

The flier claims that the shooting of both a House member and a federal judge -- the latter of whom was killed -- is god's punishment for judicial and Congressional action against the WBC. "God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He's sitting in Heaven laughing at you!" the announcement reads.The flier claims that the shooting of both a House member and a federal judge -- the latter of whom was killed -- is god's punishment for judicial and Congressional action against the WBC. "God sent the shooter to shoot you! And He's sitting in Heaven laughing at you!" the announcement reads.

Edited by Hypatia on 01/09/2011 14:06
 
Bob of QF
"Gawd is laughing"?

Yet, this inept and feeble deity has such terrible aim, that he did not accomplish the death of the congresswoman, but instead ended the life of an innocent child?

Riiiiigt... these people are nucking futs.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
I think seeker has it right in post #3 above.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Kowboy
seeker wrote:
I think this is an inevitable consequence of Republican political tactics. They have pushed the hate rhetoric so far that it was just a matter of time before some unstable loony acted out against what he might perceive as 'the liberals'.


seeker:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

Barak Obama, June 13, 2008

http://www.politi...fight.html

Let’s not forget the target Kos put on Gabby:

http://www.dailyk...511/541568

Why all the call for letting all the facts to come in before making a judgement when Nidal went Muslim nuts at Ft. Hood, but when an obvious schizophrenic starts shooting, liberals can't wait to exploit it politically? Shame on you. Disgusting.
Edited by Kowboy on 01/09/2011 18:18
 
seeker
Kowboy wrote:
seeker wrote:
I think this is an inevitable consequence of Republican political tactics. They have pushed the hate rhetoric so far that it was just a matter of time before some unstable loony acted out against what he might perceive as 'the liberals'.


seeker:

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

Barak Obama, June 13, 2008

http://www.politi...fight.html

Let’s not forget the target Kos put on Gabby:

http://www.dailyk...511/541568

Why all the call for letting all the facts to come in before making a judgement when Nidal went Muslim nuts at Ft. Hood, but when an obvious schizophrenic starts shooting, liberals can't wait to exploit it politically? Shame on you. Disgusting.


LOL, which of your quotes are you trying to compare to this, or this, or this, or this.

Republican over the top rhetoric includes calling the President of the US a 'traitor', calling for secession, labeling support for federal programs and/or increasing taxes as 'tyranny' etc. Sorry kowboy but the Democrats have nothing so incendiary in their playbook.

Even though the guy who did this shooting is mentally ill putting out rhetoric to the effect that legislators you disagree with are somehow dangerous enemies of the state is just the type of thing to trigger a violent response. The shame belongs to you for even pretending that the Republican party isn't culpable in this.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Kowboy
O.K., I get it. When Palin targets, it's bad, when Kos targets, it's good.

Is there no limit to the depths of your duplicity?
 
Max
The shooter is a classic example of a paranoid government-is-out-to-get-me conspiracy theorist. No one would deny that violence comes from both sides of the political spectrum, but the talk of American right-wing celebrities lately has been dangerously irresponsible. Though I do not read the DailyKos, the article, while having an angry tone, expressed no overt violent language. Palin's map of American districts with cross hairs over them with the emphasis on reloading, not retreating, presents a real problem. If she had wished these incumbents targeted but had done so without the provocative imagery, there would not be a problem. Sharron Angle insisting on "Second Amendment remedies" if her supporters political beliefs could not be enforced through a ballot box is another example.

The people blithely speaking about enforcing one's political will through force has been recently coming from the political right in this country, not all of it, but most. 95% of people that hear these statements will of course do nothing, but that unbalanced 5% should not be egged on with this absurd use of hyperbolic propaganda. I also do not believe that anyone who has been saying these things wanted anyone to get hurt, but when you egg that unbalanced minority on, they will take what most see as a simple campaign slogan very very seriously. People on the right or left need to stop this carelessness.
Edited by Max on 01/09/2011 23:58
 
Kowboy
Today's Wall Street Journal editorial says it much better than I:

http://online.wsj...on_LEADTop

And check out Glen Harlan Reynolds' piece too.
 
seeker
Sorry kowboy but an apologetic article by a right-wing columnist in a conservative newspaper really couldn't be expected to address the issue and it really doesn't. The fact is that words do matter and that an atmosphere of hate and derision is far more likely to influence a person to violence regardless of mental issues. This article relates that more eloquently than I perhaps. Note:

Did prominent personalities like Brewer (or Sarah Palin, who literally put Gabby Giffords in her "crosshairs"Wink cause this attack? No, any more than Bill O'Reilly and Rupert Murdoch caused the jihadist attack on a physician who had violated a terrorist's religious sensibilities -- or, for that matter, any more than jihadist websites that publicize the "blasphemies" perpetrated by the United States cause alienated young men to become suicide bombers against us or our allies.

Did Beck, Brewer, and crew contribute to the conditions that created the latest assassinations, irrespective of the prayers and pieties they and Republican politicians like John Boehner are now lavishing on the people they have encouraged their fellow citizens to hate (those with their "job-killing" and "baby-killing" agendas -- which they apparently pursue when they aren't setting up "death panels"Wink? Try reading alleged shooter Loughner's rants about government, the terrorists who have seized control over it, and what they are doing to our Constitution and argue that he was not breathing in Foxified fumes and Brewer's bigotry.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Doubting Thomas
Anyone who refuses to see that an already unbalanced individual can't be pushed over the edge by the rhetoric used by Republicans and Fox News against "liberals" and Democrats in general is being willfully ignorant.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
JohnH
I must confess. Somewhere in George W. Bush's 2nd term I went from wanting to bite his nuts off (in good cowboy style) to wanting to do him greater harm. I own no guns and am not capable of murder but I do own a baseball bat and several axes.

It is important for all of us to keep our political beliefs under control. My elder child is an anarchro-syndicalist as am I (due to his evil influence). I am also non violent and wish to remain so.

I will agree that much of the political right in this country has voiced the acceptance of violence as politically acceptable. They are not the only ones who have professed political violence as acceptable.

Sacco and Vanzetti may have been railroaded but there is some strong evidence that they had committed violent acts. The sainted IWW was not above violence to further their causes.

We must all condemn political violence. It will only encourage governmental violence.

Keith Olbermann did a nice piece on this recent murder I would suggest you all watch it.
 
Doubting Thomas
I agree that when it comes down to it, we're all responsible for our own actions, but this guy was arguably crazy. I'm not saying that the insanity defense applies here, but agree that we all need to keep control of our own actions. And they can argue all they want about the political climate being emotionally charged to the point where a nutjob will go over the edge and do something drastic. They may be right, but still it comes down to the gunman being the one responsible. But it's not hard to see how that could easily happen.

*edit* I think the WBC crazies are just so enamored with protesting funerals that they think they have to protest every funeral they can find, especially high-profile ones like this. I'm sure that 9-year-old girl deserved to die because God was throwing a hissy fit. If this is the god they worship, I'm so glad that I'm an atheist.
Edited by Doubting Thomas on 01/10/2011 16:51
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
seeker
We are indeed responsible for our own actions but history has shown that given the right atmosphere of hate and derision people can be lead to all manner of violent acts. When you keep preaching that a particular group deserves to be punished you create an atmosphere that can lead even sane and reasonable people to commit violence. The same mechanism was responsible for witch hunts, Inquisitions, rape camps, the holocaust etc.

You take a person who isn't all there mentally and you have a person who isn't capable of discriminating between rhetoric and reality. When that person hears people in authority advocating violence against the government you might as well load the gun for him.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Skeeve
From Kos:

Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district. If we can field enough serious challengers, and if we repeat the Donna Edwards and Joe Lieberman stories a few more times, well then, our elected officials might have no choice but to be more responsive. Because if we show them that their AT&T lobbyist buddies can't save their jobs, they'll pay more attention to those who can.


Notice that is the only reference. And it explains what exactly they're targeting. Contrast it to "don't retreat, reload", "Second Amendment remedies" and using actual telescope crosshairs in graphics.

I don't go to KOS anymore, I'm not that deep into politics as those over there are, but I can see a difference in the examples. The Right owns the crosshairs in this instance.

I've seen the Left put out some questionable spin, but off the top of my head, it's 10/1 or more from the Right. They all suck, but the Right is gonna get someone killed.

Nm...
Edited by Skeeve on 01/10/2011 18:02
 
seeker
It might help to think of it this way:

Suppose I'm in the proverbial crowded theater and I yell fire. In the ensuing melee a few people are injured and one of them dies. When I get in front of the judge I inform him that even though I yelled fire when there was no fire the injuries and death that occurred were the fault of the people who actually did the trampling. Think the judge would let me off?

That's the real problem here. The right is yelling fire and then claiming that the ensuing panic isn't their fault.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
JohnH
I would point to the Black Panther party displaying their weapons on the steps of the california state capitol. Political violence is violence no matter who it comes from and no matter what the justification is.

More importantly from my far left viewpoint it allows the government to justify its own violence toward the people.
 
Max
I just got back from getting the mail. The whole place is wrapped up in police tape. There are police, FBI agents, and reporters everywhere. My mother was even asked by a reporter if she wanted to make a statement. I also went to take a look at the hospital she is in; it's absolutely flooded with people and news vans from every possible station. It's very weird for this to be happening in a pretty off-the-radar place like Tucson. It is a strange feeling to have the eye of the entire country watching this small city. The crime scene is a little less than two miles to the left of my house, and the hospital about two miles to the right.
 
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