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Atheists Sue Over WTC Cross
Hypatia
American Atheists is suing over the 'World Trade Center' cross:

http://abcnews.go...d=14169830

An atheist group sued today over the inclusion of cross-shaped steel beams, dubbed the "World Trade Center Cross," in the exhibit at the National September 11th Memorial and Museum.

Jane Everhart, who is part of the atheist's suit, derided the cross as nothing more than "ugly piece of wreckage" that "does not represent anything but horror and death."

Last weekend the 17-foot cross, discovered in the rubble of 9/11, was given a "ceremonial blessing" by the Rev. Brian Jordan, removed from it's temporary post near St. Peter's Church and lowered 70 feet into its permanent home inside the museum.

But a group identified as American Atheists filed a lawsuit today claiming the inclusion of the cross-shaped steel beams promotes Christianity over all other religions on public property and diminishes the civil rights of non-Christians.

"The Christian community found a piece of rubble that looked like an icon and they deified it. But really 9/11 had nothing to do with Christianity," said American Atheists president Dave Silverman. "They want a monopoly and we don't want that to happen."

"It just so happens that the WTC was made out of T-joints and they found a T-joint," Silverman said. "They put it in the church, kept in the church for years, prayed over it, blessed it. You don't get to do that just in the coincidence that your icon looks like a T-joint."


Well, we knew this cross would be erected somewhere around the WTC site, eventually. Never mind that not only were many of the people who died at the WTC not xtian, but many of them weren't even theists. When has that kind of thing ever mattered to most xtians.

Not that I think it will make any difference, but I am glad that at least it's being protested. Maybe at the very least a symbol representing non-belief will be erected next to the cross, and whatever else may go up.
 
catman
Hypatia: I agree with you. It had to happen sooner or later. It will be a big ugly thing, won't it?
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Theory_Execution
They should erect a nice domed structure right next to the cross if it goes in, some muslim symbol to explain that claiming the site for your religion is a fucking disgrace.

The killers of that day were driven by their religion, it was the humanity of those survivors that should be celebrated.
 
Bob of QF
A cross? What... as a testament to their do-nothing god's inability to stop the atrocity?

Perhaps the cross is a reminder that the Muslim god is more powerful than the Xianist one, these days? /sarcasm

Or to remember the good old days, when the Xianist god's followers could murder 10,000 people at the drop of a hat and nobody could say anything about that?

Idiots.
Edited by Bob of QF on 07/29/2011 08:53
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Skeeve
I do like the "none or all" aspect. Christians are continually crying persecution, yet see no problem denying other religions, or atheists, their rights.

I'd prefer something that signifies unity rather than exclusion.
 
Hypatia
I said it in the comments section for the story, but I'm going to say it again here - thanks, Skeeve, for posting the story on our home page showing the names and comments some of the Faux News viewers have made in regards to this case.

Like T_E, I'm sure some of those comments are made for the shock value alone, but since there can't possibly be any acceptable excuse for making these kinds of threats and comments, they aren't any less disgusting than those made in earnest.

Too bad the names of a lot of those people are probably contrived, and if not many will be common names anyway. I just had a fantastic fantasy of being able to track down where some of them live, and of taping their names and comments on the front doors of their churches. You know, the churches they don't really go to, except for the usual three or so times of the year they bother to darken the doorways (the reptiles).
Edited by Hypatia on 07/31/2011 02:57
 
Theory_Execution
I wouldn't be so surprised if they are regular attendents of their churches, they have to be getting the bile they spit from somewhere, what better a place than the tainted chalice handed down from their master of the pulpit.
 
seeker
These are the people in charge, that's the really scary part. Sure, our leadership isn't quite as rabid and drooling as some of those posters but the ideology is the same.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Bob of QF
Hypatia wrote:
... of their churches. You know, the churches they don't really go to, except for the usual three or so times of the year they bother to darken the doorways (the reptiles).


Actually? I think you'll find that some of the most avid attenders of church, are also some of the most vitriolic. To keep and maintain such a level of seething hatred takes constant refueling.

Why do you think the holey babble exhorts it's worshipers into repetitious, daily spell-casting (payers)? To reinforce the brainwashing.

Those idiots that only pay lip service, and/or attend infrequently, are usually too apathetic to bother to post a comment anywhere. I have no fear of apathetic xianists.

It's the 5-times-a-week-at-church zealots that I worry about.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Hypatia
Seeker wrote:

These are the people in charge, that's the really scary part. Sure, our leadership isn't quite as rabid and drooling as some of those posters but the ideology is the same.


Bob of QF wrote:

Actually? I think you'll find that some of the most avid attenders of church, are also some of the most vitriolic.


Yes, true enough that, guys.
 
JohnH
I must say I am shocked at the willingness to express violence toward atheists. I understand distrust of the other and caution in ones dealings with them. But, accepting violence toward the other with out some level of restraint should not be allowed by civilized people. It should cause a level of concern to religious people but it will not.
Edited by JohnH on 08/01/2011 15:00
 
Theory_Execution
People will express violence at any moment they believe it to be acceptable... Im guilty of that myself, I often say we should kill rapists and some murderers.
 
JohnH
Theory_Execution, you make a good point. I was prepared to bite the testicles off of George W. Bush if I got the chance. One must always restrain their less civilized instincts.

I must edit. Biting off George W. Bushes testicles would have been a civilizing act. It is the balance between what is violent and what is necessary that is difficult. And, should not ever be contemplated lightly.
Edited by JohnH on 08/01/2011 15:28
 
Theory_Execution
Could you get your teeth round them things? The balls on that guy... Declaring Mission Accomplished in 2003, it was a long shot, but they could have given up their arms believing him.

The only argument I have a little issue with regarding killing certain criminals is the 'what if theyre innocent' approach. More often than not I say 'so what, world would be better overall' - but obviously with that answer there are all the problems of people arranging for the innocent to be killed by the method for political or other reasons.
 
Hypatia
http://www.thedai...ss_tdsvids
 
Photon
Jon really missed the boat regarding the WTC cross, in that he confused the issue entirely, it isn't about objecting to crosses in general, pernicious thought they may be, and it isn't about trying to belittle someone's comfort drawn from a symbol taken out of the ashes of a horrific event, it's about using taxpayer's dollars to erect the monument to the exclusion of other representative symbols. This item has been in a Catholic church nearby through the intervening years, there's no real reason why it couldn't be erected on church property.

This is a separation of church and state issue, not an issue of atheists being dicks about it.
 
Bob of QF
This came up on Topix, too.

My objection is the same as Photon's: this piece of steel rubbish would be just that: steel-scrap.

Would they not have cast their "magical spells" all over it, converting it into religious iconography.

By a local church posting it in their congregation, it has taken on "magical status" in the minds of these people--- they have cast various spells (prayers) over it, and turned it into something other than a piece of steel.

Since they did that, it is no longer suitable for public-funded locations--- for you cannot place with equal status, all the religious iconography for all the various victims.

Just imagine the hew and cry, if someone wanted to place a Muslim symbol* to represent the Muslim victims within the monument...

... !!

Buncha hypocrites, all.


* yeah, I know... it's already happened... sorta... remember the Muslim building they wanted to put up nearby? On private property? With private funds?
Edited by Bob of QF on 08/05/2011 18:48
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Theory_Execution
Anyone listen to Atheist Experience Pod cast? The Non-Prophets I think it is called.

On that the point was made that it may be the case that the steel cross isnt erect in any particular prideful place, but included within an exhibit of salvaged items / walls of memories regarding that day - as part of a collection of things that drew people in, a history of the day if you will.

In that sense its not so bothersome, but with the way the Christians bully and trample, I doubt it would have been put in such a place without the lawsuit.
 
Bob of QF
If the christers would permit equal representation, including Muslim symbolism, I'd have less of an issue with it--

-- for it would reflect the minds of the victims, and remind everyone that religion played a key role in bringing those buildings down...

... alas, what symbol would be fitting for the dead atheists?
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Theory_Execution
How about that Imagine no religion picture?
 
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