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It doesn't bleeping matter
JohnH
I am in the process of listening to Democracy Now talking about an incident where a handcuffed person was beaten to death when being escorted to the border for deportation. Apparently there is ample video evidence of the evil of the event. Nothing will happen to the perpetrators.

I watched the videos of the assassination of Oscar Grant. The perpetrator got a slap on the wrist.

Cops in this country kill with impunity.

It does not fucking matter what evidence is available against them. I not only do not like this I hate it.
 
seeker
Civilization is nothing more than a thin veneer. Peel it off and we are no better or worse than any other animal.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
The problem is by serving no-action against crimes committed by government bodies (police through to top politicians) they wish to generate a united front.

Instead what it does in undermine all of the institutions and fill the general public with hate.

In the UK, if a political figure or a rich person ahs broken the law, they are not taken to court, instead the government sets up an Inquiry.

The stated purpose of an inquiry is to find those responsible, and deliver information so that charges can be made. The actual purpose is to draw out the investigation until the original purpose is lost to the public and to deliver a verdict of no fault.

A big white wash. The big one at the moment in the UK is the Leverson Inquiry, it is looking into 'accusations' of phone-tapping and other law braking committed by journalist organizations (mainly owned by Rupert Murdock). IT IS NOT THE PLACE!

We have law courts, and the information would be recorded and noted and not subject to any special political concealment, which is likely to happen here, given the pandering politicians make towards anyone who can put them in print.

I predict there will be no further arrests, and any politician found to have broken the law will simply move job.
 
seeker
Pretty similar here TE. There are systems in place to investigate government abuse but usually they are dominated by people who used to work in the government departments that they investigate.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
I see no way of it ever changing.
 
JohnH
This thread is mostly dead but I must add something. The public assumes a level of complicity when it simply says nothing will ever change. Now I will admit I realized long ago that it is roughly equivalent to pissing into the wind to take on the government. It is also true that a little bit of urine on you pants will not hurt you.
 
Kowboy
John H:

If there is one thing I've learned, it's that things aren't always what they seem, even with videotape.

I've had people post on Facethingie that Heiniken promotes dogfighting. They don't despite the pictures. I've had people post that dog treats kill dogs. They don't if you follow the instructions.

One need look no further than the Martin/Zimmerman fiasco to see that the media has a narrative. It is up to us to examine whether or not the media narrative is the truth or not.
 
cheshiredragon
This is why I read my news from other countries. They seem to have the stories straight on what is going on in my country. USA news is one sided, depending on who you watch and FAUX news is opinion-based.
That's right, I said it...
 
Theory_Execution
I try to keep up with our news here, but you are right Kowboy, someone is profiting somewhere from how those news stories are put across.

There is a terrible paper in the UK called the Daily Mail, it is well know for it 'Everything gives you cancer' stories. The story I read lately stated "Pakistani law to allow husbands to have sex with their dead wives.".

There was no bill/paper reference, no details of any politician who had put the motion forward, it was all just hate mongering, and then, right at the end in the last paragraph to dodge the lawyers, it informs the reader that there were no confirmed reports of this, and that it was likely propaganda generated by the opposition party.

Now the likelihood, as I saw from those touting the story as true, was that their typical reader does not make their way through the whole article, but instead accepts the headline as true.

Racists obviously benefit from this, but also, it casts an image of the people of Pakistan (and by association all other Muslims) as barbaric and vile, disrespectful of the dead and inhumane - and who benefits from this? Those wishing to continue our wars, and those looking to start new ones with Iran.

On another note, good luck to Iran with building that Atom Bomb.
 
seeker
That's why you really have to avoid jumping to conclusions when you hear a bit of news. Human nature tends to push people to tell the news from their point of view. Most of the time you will never really be able to say you 'know' what happened in any given event.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
You are in great danger of being hoodwinked when you accept anything in todays world on face value. There are two many people for whom lying is a hobby or worse a job.

I found two vids on YouTube, posted by a listener/watcher of The Young Turks, think they call the bit YT History. Anywho, he is a history lecturer/teacher and he delved into the subject of why America (and the UK) hate Iran.

It turns out that when they elected their first ever Prime Minister, England was pissed as this Minister decided he would nationalize the Oil production (something the wealthy oil companies were making lots of money out of). England and the US devised a plan to install a dictator in his place, which worked. But as he oppressed his people, the people fought back and estalished essentially what we have today.

Near all modern conflict tracks back to Oil, but not securing it for the general population, as it is the tax payer who inevitably ends up paying for all of the shady deals.
 
seeker
TE - We did that throughout the Middle East and South America. One of the dirty little secrets is that the US believes in democracy for itself, when it comes to other countries democracy is just too messy.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
That's what the guy was explaining, it started with a country in South America, and when word got out, everyone jumped on the band wagon - even to the point where Israel were getting money for nothing (to shut them up about the US giving money to the Muslims).

It's really fucking disgusting, and anyone who would buy that shite about governments not endorsing torture, or disappearing people around the world are morons.

There is a big story in the UK about an MI6 (similar to your CIA I think) operative who was found dead, in a sports/kit bag, that was locked from the outside in the bath of his flat.

The police have been looking into it, and only now, after many weeks, have MI6 said they have more evidence that the police were given access to.

How much of that was in the national security, and how much was things linking him to some fuck up (maybe blowing whistles) that got him killed.

I may be a dreamer, but I think, if government were completely open and honest, no secrets at all, no hiding of where money is actually spent, we may have a better country.

And to the point of nuclear war, which is one of the main reasons why people say we need state secrets, if the UK was bombed, we would all be fucked anyway, so why waste all that money maintaining them.

Rant on back burner.
 
seeker
I actually agree with that TE. There is probably no way to ever eliminate all of the backroom shady deal element of government but I so think that more open and transparent government operates the better off we all are.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
The only issue I see with that is if, further down the line, it becomes common place that people believe the government to be completely open, and hence stop asking questions, and then the shady pre- and post- meeting meetings occur and decisions are made in private.

Too often do we see if documents released 50-75 years after the fact that, against what was said public, our governments have been involved in disturbing events.

I will never shake the hand of a politician unless they make it their working lifes aim to open up the government fully.
 
seeker
Unfortunately I don't think that will happen in our lifetimes. People tend to cling to power and all that government secrecy hides an immense amount of power.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
And it is clear that the most powerful are not the very public heads of government. I see our PM squirm every time he needs to make an obvious decision, because someone else is telling him what to do.

Some people see the above as 'conspiracy theory thinking', I am not an iluminati thinker, or space reptillians, but the fact remains that it is illogical that a person, who will only be in power for 4years, is given the control of a full country.

It is the big party funders, and un-elected politicians (high ranking civil servants) who have been in the system for decades that make the real decisions in the UK.

I really think Politics should not be a course at any University.
 
seeker
Unfortunately that is the way it has always been. Government has always been a balance between an elite group taking as much as they can while avoiding being overthrown.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
JohnH
Kenneth Chamberlain who had a medical alert device which he inadvertently set off ended up dead because he was impolite to the police.

Yes sir/mam, no sir/mam, please do not make the handcuffs so tight, I wish not to die so I will not resist you.

Cops will kill you because they can get away with it. If you are an ordinary citizen do not ever forget that..
 
Theory_Execution
I have been watching videos of UK Police Stop and Search incidents. Essentially, the police in the UK can stop and search you at anytime if they have reason to believe you have committed a crime, are carrying a weapon or have stolen property.

In essence, if you live in a high crime-rate area, or near a sports ground, or near a government building, the police can search you at their will. And seeing as the UK is a small place, this would apply to anyone in a city.

Thank Frank they dont have guns here.

What is it like in the US?
 
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