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A little something...debate
cheshiredragon
I have come up with a list of the most common statements, questions and arguments from Christians. I decided to write them down and dispute them all in one place. Let me know what you think and ADD to it if you want to. The more ammo to the opposite side the better Smile



1. Where do you get your morals?
First you must define morals to understand where they come from. Nowhere in the definitions of morals does it say they come from God or religion. Everyone simply associates them with religion. I got mine from my parents, society and life experience.


2. You'll grow out of your rebellious phase.
Already did and who is saying that I am rebelling? Aren't you rebelling against the government and laws. Don't break any laws now, you are rebelling if you do.


3. So, you want to outlaw religion?
No one said that. If they did then they are going against the constitution and should be ignored. You have a right to practice your religion as I have a right not to practice it. All I am asking is that you stop shoving down my throat.


4. You're what's wrong with society today.
Are you sure? Most people in prison identify with a religion. What about those people who find God while in prison?


5. 95% of the world believes in God. Doesn't that say something?
Read my above statement. That would mean 95% of all people in prison believe in God AND thay they believed in God when they committed those crimes. Where was their God then?


6. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as is does to be a believer!
We should take a look back at question 1. Define faith. A belief that is not based on proof. You don't have proof, yet you believe. Prove there is a God and it would take a whole hell of a lot of faith to NOT believe it even when there is proof.
Since I don't believe a God and one hasn't been proven there is no faith.


7. How arrogant.
Arrogance must have been redefined. I think going around claiming something you have absolutely NO EVIDENCE for is pretty arrogant. How about saying I am going to Hell? Isn't God the one to judge me? Aren't you being a bit arrogant taking his place and speaking for him? That has got to take some balls to speak for God. I would NEVER do that.


8. You can't prove there's no God!
OK, and you can't prove there IS a God. Nice try.


9. Atheism is a religion, too!
Again! Definitions people! Atheism is NOT defined as a religion. If you cared to look it up then you'd know. Don't look up Atheism, look up religion. None of the definitions of religion say 'the lack of belief', but 'the belief of' and to 'practice the belief.' With atheism you don't have to practice anything, you just are. I was 16 before I knew what atheism was, yet I was an atheist since I was born.


10. The evidence for God is all around you!
Ok...show me. You provide no evidence.


11. God loves you anyway.
Ok, then what do I have to worry about? If he loves me, I never find evidence to believe in him then he will understand, forgive me, and let me into heaven anyway.


12. What's stopping you from going on a crime spree right now?
Does getting raped in the ass count? Killing people is just wrong and hey, stealing isn't kewl either.


13. Pascal's Wager


14. Aren't you afraid of hell?
Can't be afraid of what doesn't exist.


15. I feel sorry for you not having a reason to live.
I have plenty of reasons for living. My son is one of them. It's a shame that you can't find anything other than a God.


16. There are no atheists in foxholes.
Again, another one you will have to prove, but I can do the research for you. Ever hear of MAAF? No you didn't because you just made a blind claim. Classic Christian...no research.


17. But you HAVE to believe in something!
I do. Chicken wings, cars, the Sun, Earth, Moon and stars. Pretty much anything I can SEE.


18. Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot were atheists too, you know.
Hitler was Catholic, but if you want to take this route.....How many MILLIONS were killed in the name of God? Haw many wars have been fought in the name of God? I can think of a few:
Thirty Years War
French Wars of Religion
Second Sudanese Civil War
Crusades
Lebanese Civil War
Combined roughly 20million people were killed.

How many did the 3 that you named kill? It fluctuates from 5 to 8million. By the way, I only listed 5 wars fought in the name of God, not ALL of them.


19. What are you going to tell your children?
He already knows. What's the problem or lack of point here?


20. I'll pray for you.
Ok.


21. You're doing the devils work!
Didn't your God say we all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God? You sin, I sin, we all sin and you do it even more because many christians do it regardless. Look back at my comments on Christians in prison.


22. If you read [religious text], you'd change your mind.
I've read the Christian bible. Three times! I still haven't changed my mind.


23. You are so close-minded.
So are you when you don't even consider the other side.


24. Stop being intolerant of my beliefs!
Then stop shoving them down my throat!


25. God doesn't believe in atheists, either.
Well read question 11 and explain that one again.
That's right, I said it...
 
Skeeve
You should ask John, the guy posting jesus on our Facebook page, to come over and discuss these.
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
Theory_Execution
1. Where do you get your morals?
Society and through empathetic thought.

2. You'll grow out of your rebellious phase.
You will see reason one day.

3. So, you want to outlaw religion?
Yes, but not directly. I would hope education is improved to such a degree that gullibility was reduced to a vanishingly small amount, and children would have reason enough to see through your bullshit.

4. You're what's wrong with society today.
You are right, it is hard to openly execute homosexuals and burn witches and enslave people with people like me around.

5. 95% of the world believes in God. Doesn't that say something?
95% of people are unreasonable when it comes to the question of the existence of God. Furthermore, it says that the very idea of your god is not so clear cut, as the 95% account for all ideas and versions of God.

6. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as is does to be a believer!
No, atheism is an attestation of the lack of belief in gods. The evidence speaks for itself, in that it is silent. Invisible. Not found to exist.

7. How arrogant.
How fervent. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged." - some guy, the Bible.

8. You can't prove there's no God!
What is your point?

9. Atheism is a religion, too!
No, you are wrong. See 6.

10. The evidence for God is all around you!
Yes I see the workings of Baal everywhere. You have me a convert!

11. God loves you anyway.
And Gizmo loves you.

12. What's stopping you from going on a crime spree right now?
Desire.

13. Pascal's Wager
Expand.

14. Aren't you afraid of hell?
More so of the horrors you justify through your belief in hell.

15. I feel sorry for you not having a reason to live.
Liar. My very existance justifies your hell which justifies your heven.

16. There are no atheists in foxholes.
Have you been inside everyone? You cant disprove foxhole atheists! See 8.

17. But you HAVE to believe in something!
I do, the evident.

18. Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot were atheists too, you know.
And? Their crimes rode on the back of religious sentiment and the notion of personality cults, helped along the way by established religious institutions.

19. What are you going to tell your children?
Eat this other childs heart before you pray to the Dark One.

20. I'll pray for you.
"I'll think for you." - some person, in reality

21. You're doing the devils work!
Feel tempted? Why don't you give it a try, you may smile more.

22. If you read [religious text], you'd change your mind.
Read it.

23. You are so close-minded.
"You are so open-minded your brain fell out!" - some person, in life.

24. Stop being intolerant of my beliefs!
No. You crazy hate mongering fucknaut.

25. God doesn't believe in atheists, either.
I thought he called them fools? Very forgetful this fella.
 
Cynic
1. Where do you get your morals?
Same place everyone else gets theirs.


2. You'll grow out of your rebellious phase.
The thing about rebellions is, first, it implies opposition to larger force that is in charge. Larger, I'll grant. In charge is debatable. The second thing is, when a rebellion is called for, "growing out of it" is a shame. Jesus was supposedly a rebel. Did he grow out of it?


3. So, you want to outlaw religion?
Did I say that? What I'd like to outlaw is groups forcing their beliefs on others. If your religion requires that, than in so far as the requirement goes, sure: outlaw it.


4. You're what's wrong with society today.
If being me is wrong, I don't want to be right.


5. 95% of the world believes in God. Doesn't that say something?
Sure. If 95% of the world jumped off a bridge, what would that say?


6. It takes just as much faith to be an atheist as is does to be a believer!
An atheist is someone who does not hold a belief in a god. As proving the non-existence of such a god is impossible, claiming certainty of this non-existence would require faith ("as much" perhaps). However, one needn't belief that something doesn't exist to merely lack the belief that it does.


7. How arrogant.
I believe you meant "hubristic". Personally, I think it takes less arrogance to challenge an assumption than it does to make one and then insist that everyone else agree with you, but I suppose there's just no escaping the charge at this point.


8. You can't prove there's no God!
Without breaking the rules of logic (thus invalidating any potential proof), nothing at all can be said either way. This is, not coincidentally, why no formal definition of a god has ever been offered that can withstand any level of scrutiny.


9. Atheism is a religion, too!
If religion requires faith and atheist does not, then atheism needn't be a religion. Thus, atheism might be a religion to some people (but isn't to most atheists).


10. The evidence for God is all around you!
Evidence is all around us, yes, but what it is evidence for has not yet been determined.


11. God loves you anyway.
True or not, that statement does not impact me in any way.


12. What's stopping you from going on a crime spree right now?
You cannot stop an object at rest.


13. Pascal's Wager
One either has some degree of faith or one does not. I am unaware of how one gets to faith from a starting point of being faithless while remaining honest. And really, if you're not being honest about it, what's the point? Dishonest faith isn't really faith at all, is it? That this even occurred to you should you serious pause about your own thoughts on the matter.


14. Aren't you afraid of hell?
No. But if I were, does fear lead to honest faith, or just cynical posturing in the hope that your god cannot or does not distinguish between the two?


15. I feel sorry for you not having a reason to live.
And yet I continue to live while having able opportunity to end my life. Perhaps your theory is flawed.


16. There are no atheists in foxholes.
There have historically been plenty of atheists in foxholes. And while it's true that extreme moments of fear and confusion can play havoc with one's ability to reason, this situation is reversible. Personally, I'd be a little embarrassed if it happened to me.


17. But you HAVE to believe in something!
I believe you are mistaken.


18. Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot were atheists too, you know.
Godwin; you lose.


19. What are you going to tell your children?
I'm going to teach them how to think critically, not tell them what to think. Anyone seriously concerned that proper thinking skills will prevent their children from coming to the right conclusions should seriously reconsider their conclusions (but probably won't because their parents told them not to).


20. I'll pray for you.
I'll think for you. (Because TE's response is full of win.)


21. You're doing the devils work!
Satan is rebellious. Perhaps he'll grow out of it.


22. If you read [religious text], you'd change your mind.
If more people read the bible instead of letting people tell them what it says, there would be far fewer believers in the world.


23. You are so close-minded.
1+2=5, and if you doubt that, you're closed minded too. Not convinced? Small wonder.


24. Stop being intolerant of my beliefs!
Stop telling me what to do.


25. God doesn't believe in atheists, either.
I guess we're even.
 
cheshiredragon
Skeeve wrote:

You should ask John, the guy posting jesus on our Facebook page, to come over and discuss these.



I think I scared him off with that last comment I made hehe



Good responses you two. Mine sucked in comparison.
Perhaps I should give up on my book...


EDIT: HEY! 800th post Smile
That's right, I said it...
 
Theory_Execution
25. God doesn't believe in atheists, either.
I guess we're even.


One of my favourites.

Iv no big post celebrations coming up for a whilllleeeeee.
 
seeker
I don't have better answers than the ones already given. Unfortunately the problem is usually that Christians have already heard these arguments and chosen to ignore them.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
I disagree Seeker, I think the full explanation is, they ask the question, as as you are answering it they are recalling their next question and mulling it over in their head before they say it - and so on, often repeating the same questions you answered half hour ago.

It is somewhat similar to meeting someone new for hte first time, and trying to sound awesome when you introduce yourself, you are thinking about exactly how you are going to say your own name, that you forget to listen for theirs - but in the above case, it allows Priests to rape children amongst other things.
 
seeker
So not listening leads to raping children?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
cheshiredragon
Pretty much. Someone asked me my secret and I said that I had beaten a 12yr old girl to death with a shovel. They then reiterated, or so I thought, about the secret to my success. I then said, "I didn't let anything, no matter how small, get in my way."

You might be onto something, seeker.
That's right, I said it...
 
Theory_Execution
So not listening leads to raping children?


Exactly.
 
jayon
cheshiredragon wrote:

8. You can't prove there's no God!
OK, and you can't prove there IS a God.


There is God.

There is a god.

"A God" which mightvrefer to a god in general and/or the Christian god seems incorrect IMO.
 
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