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The US public must start accepting some responsibility
JohnH
I came across this today.

http://www.counte...rosshairs/

Bradley Manning should be considered a hero for what he exposed. He did it at the risk of many years in prison but he did it nonetheless. He put no people at risk for what he did other than himself.

I wonder at the bulk of the people in the US who accept the illegal and immoral acts of our government. We must all start accepting responsibility and must act accordingly.

I abhor violence to another. Sometimes I think it is the only way that people can affect what is increasingly a government that has no concern for us or for any other. It is only concerned with power and control and manifesting that power in the most crude way.

Including putting a human in prison for pointing out its failings even in wars it has chosen to engage in.
 
Theory_Execution
It is a long and important read. I am half way through.
 
seeker
This is the kind of government cover-up that would have been a huge scandal say 40 years ago. Somehow we seem to have adopted the notion that whatever we do is justified because WE did it.

There have always been acts like the ones Manning exposed committed in the various conflicts the US has been involved with but they've never been overtly sanctioned by the government in the way they are now. Perhaps the decline of the US is nowhere more evident than in our willingness to sink to such despotic lows as resorting to torture and atrocity.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
I wondered for a split second why I had never heard of this UK screwing over Iceland thing, then remembered, I live in the UK!
 
JohnH
TE, I must comment on your above statement. I will preface that with the statement that both my mothers parents were born in Iceland and as a consequence of this odd fact have paid attention to its activities with some rigor.

English banks had a real reason to get pissed with Iceland. It fell into the capital splurge that let to the financial collapse of the late 2010's. This was done by a formerly nationalized banking system that had been largely privatized. Much of the failed debt was held by British Banks.

The public in Iceland which had been victimized itself said to the creditors, fuck you. You want to try to get money out of a small country of vikings try it. That British interests wanted to get back at Iceland was in fact understandable.

I would still suggest to your people that dealing aggressively with Iceland would make the Falklands (Malvinas) war look like a cake walk. I would not myself mess with my viking forebears. A blood line which probably makes you and I related, if distantly.
 
Theory_Execution
The UK only attacks brown people now that we are good friends with America - that and our own people.

There also isn't this go get em', gungho, alpha, top dog, macho bullshit that I hear from America in this country - so it makes statements of war rare - there hasn't been a memorable one since Thatcher and her chat about the Falklands.

Yet, our country will screw you out of your money where ever it can, and more and more will detain people for America.
 
JohnH
I came across this today. An interesting discussion of the sentencing and jail time of Bradley Manning and William Laws Calley. Lt. Calley being a person some of you should be old enough to remember, and know how well he represented what was wrong with the US war in Vietnam.

http://www.counte...nt-or-not/

You need not read all of it even if it is not particularly long. But you must scroll down to the end where Manning explains why he did what he did. One would wish to have similar courage in a similar situation.

We as a nation (the US, and yes TE the UK helps) wage overt and covert wars against others world wide. We should as a public be ashamed and take to the streets. We do not and by not doing so give tacit approval to our governments actions.
 
seeker
You could say that about a lot of the things that are going on these days, John. If history suggests anything it is that people in power get what they want. Calley was doing what the people in charge of that war wanted him to do, Manning not so much. Calley's show trial resulted in a popular decision followed by a low key pardon because what he did was what people in charge wanted him to do, Manning not so much.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Hypatia
seeker wrote:

This is the kind of government cover-up that would have been a huge scandal say 40 years ago. Somehow we seem to have adopted the notion that whatever we do is justified because WE did it.

There have always been acts like the ones Manning exposed committed in the various conflicts the US has been involved with but they've never been overtly sanctioned by the government in the way they are now. Perhaps the decline of the US is nowhere more evident than in our willingness to sink to such despotic lows as resorting to torture and atrocity.


Or reverting to.
 
seeker
Maybe more appropriate Hypatia. Perhaps we haven't really become anything more than the savages we were when we began.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
We have more technology.... with which to make our methods of murder more intricate.
 
seeker
...and more efficient
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Hypatia
Yes, more technology and more efficient, but still it seems to me that we regress more quickly and frequently than we progress in some ways. It seems to me some could easily lead us, if we aren't on guard or we let them, right back into the days when we were more savage, indeed. I think there are plenty who would be perfectly content with that arrangement.
 
seeker
I think that is exactly what is going on in this country right now, Hypatia. The real question is how far down the path do we walk before realizing that we are regressing rather than progressing.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
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