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My cats.
Sugarfree
Sinny; Cant you crush the pills so that he doesnt realise he is eating them?
 
Sinny
Thanks Catman I think so too that's why I didn't listen to my Mother who said you know what you have to do and about putting him down. He's not in pain though he was suffering with not being able to have his balance and getting so dizzy all the time. Not that I'm tooting my own horn here but I really think I came up with the right idea on when the right time would be to get him. I really don't like the idea of going after him for meds during feeding time, litter time or regular routines. I think it could end up in a disaster by traumatizing him into having bad behaviors towards the necessitites of living.

I just got him again a few minutes ago. He came up to me while on the computer to get held and I just knew he would slip up sooner or later at the computer as he sometimes does come to me when I'm typing. This I allowed to be the perfect time because it's not a regular routine we share or a living necessity he needs to keep routine. I kept a pill in the cap just in case and voila I got him but he slightly bit his tongue not hard just a little and then I loosened up and he swallowed. I checked the floor just in case he faked me out like last time LOL.

Only 4 more to go!! I hope I last 4 more days. His little head is still tilted but he's strong enough to play and wrestle with Trix. He went after Trix before and she let out a yelp. I reached down to pet him saying don't hurt her and he ran like rocket paws LOL. He thought I was going to pick him up for another pill LOL. He has no sense of time at all. Like all cats except when it comes time for dinner and snacks. I see a lot of improvement since he's taking a pill instead of liquid meds.
 
Hypatia
SF - that's an excellent idea. It occurred to me too last night. We've been having to crush my MILs medications and I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner for Sinny. Well, probably because Norton's medication was liquid until just recently.

Anyway Sinny - if you crush the pill well enough maybe you could disguise it in some wet food on the tip of a spoon. What do you have to loose but a pill in some cat food on the floor, or maybe in your hair. Just scrape it up and try again.

Grin

Toby is adorable SF, and I can hardly believe how much Norton has grown since the last pictures you posted Sin. Wow.

derF - I've known that you have an illness, but I didn't know you're undergoing chemo. I'm so sorry you're having to go through that treatment, but I do hope it will help you. Sad

 
Sinny
Sugarfree wrote:
Sinny; Cant you crush the pills so that he doesnt realise he is eating them?


SF I considered doing that but I can't risk wasting a pill on trying the pill in food. He's getting real smart on how to avoid getting his meds. He also has a keen sense of smell. In fact when I put their treats in my hand that had the pill in it he snuffed his nose up at his treats and I think that's because he smelled the scent of the pill. Also I tried that with the liquid meds that had beef flavoring, his favorite, and he snuffed his little nose up at that too.

I can't risk it with him so I figured I'm better off trying it the hard way to be absolutely sure he's getting all of the medication. Not like with the liquid that he would spit out and some left in the stupid ass injection with out the needle crap. I miss the eye dropper that had the measurements on them. They claim the eye dropper doesn't come with the measurements but thats bullshit. I had one for my other kitty years ago. I wish now I had saved it. The liquid is going to waste in the refrigerator. Thanks for the suggestion anyways SF I appreciate any advice, suggestions.
 
Hypatia
For future need (hopefully there won't be one, but just in case) - ask at the pharmacy (the human pharmacy) for an eye dropper that has the markings on it. They should have them, and will probably just give you one or two without charging you, especially if you ask where you get your scripts filled.

 
catman
Yeah, they aren't all that hard to get. I have one with one marking on it (1 ml, I think) and another that is plain.

I keep a bottle full of hydrogen peroxide with a medicine dropper close art hand so that when I get scratched or cut myself on something, it's quickly available to fight infections. H2O2 is great stuff!
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
What a great idea Smile I wish I thought of that. I'll go asap and ask for one. From now on when I adopt any more kittens I am going to get them used to taking pills by giving them one kitty vitamin everyday while they are young so they will already be used to it. That way if they should ever need to take medication they will most likely not be so hard to get it in them.
 
catman
I'm not sure that will make them 'used to it' in a good way. I think they will always hate it. At least that's my experience.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
Hmm you may be right about that but if I can associate it with lavishing them with extra attention the playing with them afterwards maybe I can get them to accept it. Hopefully it won't be for many years yet until I adopt 2 more since it would be after my little one's I have now are gone. Norton is making good improvement. His head is still tilted today and his eyes don't seem to dialate. He has an appt. for Tuesday with the vet for a follow up. Yeah that should be fun trying to catch him to put in his carrier. I told them I won't allow the vet to be with him without my being present. I was told the vet may have to take him in the back....well you can imagine my reaction to that..... NO FREAKING WAY! NO GONNA HAPPEN!!
 
catman
Sinny: If you have such distrust for that vet, you need to find another one!

I don't think you'll ever be able to get a cat to accept a pill without protest. It's not something they learn to do; to resist it is instinctive and can't be overridden, no matter how much making up you do. You may be able to get them to forget about it each time by taking their minds off it with play, but they can't help resisting having something they don't like stuffed down their throats.

At least that's my take on it.


"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sugarfree
I agree with Catman. I dont think cats are so easy to train, particularly not with something like taking pills. Best i can get my Scamp to do is reach for me when im standing too far away for him to lick me - thats pretty awesome though =)
 
catman
The lines which always occur to me when I think about attempting to train a cat to do something (or submit to something) that it doesn't want to:
We are Siamese if you please,
We are Siamese if you don't please...

(from 'The Siamese Cat Song' from the animated movie The Lady and the Tramp)

It sums up cat psychology quite well!
Edited by catman on 11/07/2008 17:12
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
Ha ha ha ha ha I like that Catman. I may be pulling back a bloody stump trying to get my next 2 little kittens used to taking a pill once a day. Well maybe I could get them used to eating a crushed up vitamin in their food so they get used to the canned cat food not 100% tasting like canned cat food. I know it's too late to even venture to try with my 2 now.

Ahh you picked up on my vibe with the vet. I don't trust any vet now because I am just more paranoid now than ever because first he needed an MRI ....then it's lets check his heart to see if he can have an MRI so have an EKG ...then no go on MRI because of the heart disease....then well an MRI will help see if the problem is in his brain. I really don't see putting him through the stress and trauma of having to go back to the vet when he doesn't absolutely have to. She just wants him in for a follow up, which as I said before I never heard of until now.

I'm going to check his eyes in the light again later and see if they are still dilated (large pupil). I think he's having trouble seeing properly. Last night he had a delayed reaction to my moving a piece of thick material on a stick for him to chase and he didn't see it move to his left until a few seconds later. I'm concerned about this and sometimes it seems he's slightly struggling to see. So I decided to check online for side effects of baytril and found the side effect is blindness Sad Now I'm afraid to give him his last 3 pills because of this. I wish the vet had told me about the side effects Angry goddammittofucking hell why did she choose something that is known to cause blindnessAngry here's an article about it.

This is what I found tonight the first time checking.

Antibiotics are often used in the treatment of various feline diseases. Due to over-use of antibiotics, bacteria can develop resistance to frequently used antibiotics; as a result, antibiotics become less effective over time, and may even become ineffective. To counter antibiotic resistance, pharmaceutical companies are constantly trying to find new medications to help win the war against deadly bacteria. One such recently introduced antibiotic is Baytril (enrofloxacin.) While Baytril is very effective against many bacteria, unfortunately it is often being used as a first choice antibiotic in many situations. While antibiotic resistance is now developing against Baytril, a new side effect (blindness) has been reported in some cats. This article will discuss this problem, and will also offer some alternatives to consider that can be equally effective against bacterial infections without causing this severe problem.

Over the last few months there have been a few rare reports of blindness in cats caused by administration of the antibiotic Baytril (enrofloxacin.) A timely report in the December 2002 issue of the Journal of the AVMA summarized the problem and reviewed a retrospective study of 17 affected cats. The affected cats ranged from 3-16 years of age and were treated with Baytril for a variety of medical problems. In the affected cats, the retinas of the eyes had degenerated following treatment for a variety of disorders with Baytril. The suspected mechanism of damage seems to be direct damage to the retinal cells.

Older cats developed blindness at lower dosages than what was needed to cause blindness in the younger patients. Older cats often have underlying kidney disease; if Baytril doses are not lowered, increased blood levels can accumulate due to inadequate kidney function. Currently, based upon the cases studied, it appears that the greatest risk factors are the dose of Baytril administered, the length of treatment (the longer the cat is treated the greater the risk of developing blindness,) age of the cat (it appears to be potentially more toxic to the retinas of older cats,) and rapid IV administration of the medication. While there have been no official reports of this problem in dogs, I have treated one dog whose owner came to me for a second opinion. This was an older small breed dog that had developed sudden blindness following Baytril administration for an oral cyst. Despite extensive testing and referral to an ophthalmologist, the exact cause of the blindness was never determined. Administration of Baytril immediately prior to the dog developing blindness was the only known link to the blindness.

While the risk of irreversible retinal degeneration and subsequent blindness is estimated to be 1 out of 122, 414 cats treated with Baytril, there are other options to consider. First, if antibiotic therapy is needed, a different antibiotic should be chosen unless the situation is so severe that only enrofloxacin would be indicated. For example, amoxicillin, clindamycin, trimethoprim sulfa, tetracycline derivatives, and any of the cephalosporin antibiotics could be used without danger of retinal degeneration. Whenever possible, a natural alternative to antibiotic therapy would be preferred. As an example, cats with mild, non-bloody urinary disease (FLUTD) may benefit from herbs such as cranberry and homeopathics rather than antibiotics. Cats with chronic respiratory conditions (especially herpes virus infection) can be maintained (but not cured) with a combination of other antibiotics, immune boosting herbs, and topical saline nose drops and sometimes decongestants. Pets with skin infections often do quite well with frequent bathing with antibacterial shampoos, antibacterial olive leaf extract, and various immune stimulants such as Echinacea, astragalus, and colostrum.


shit Norton got 1.2 mils of this once a day for like 2 weeks on and off. Now 5 days straight if I count the liquid and pill. 4 days with the pill and 1 with the liquid. He has 3 more days of pills (7 day Rx) left.

Now I don't know what is right for him. I do suspect he is haveing trouble seeing but I'm no expert here. Shit!!!!! The only clue I have is my suspicion of how he looks around and is slow to react to something I wave by him. But then he was playing with his ball yesterday in the dim light and had no trouble find it. Unless he only knew where it rolled to by sound. His favorite is the red pom pom ball. If I stop before the 7 days perscription and he goes back to the idiopathic vestibular problem (dizzyness) then I will have the same problem all over again but if this is damaging his eyesite then it will be my fault because now I know what baytril can do to him. Sad Just when I thouhgt he might be out of the woods with sickness and now I find this out. I wish he could tell me...but of course that's not possible. I hope I'm just panicking over nothing but I only suspected then decided to check it out it's not like I didn't suspect something from his behavior and just decided now to check for side effects..

Dammit I wish now I had checked first then told the vet let's try the safer antibiotic first. Ok now I have to take him for the follow up with the vet but I don't want him out of my site because the fear of being brought back and my not being with him will stress him way too much and myself too.
 
Skeeve
test
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
catman
Sinny: I do hope that Norton's retinas aren't damaged. One out of 122 is less than 1%, but it's still high for such a disastrous side effect. It may not be that in his case, since he's got the other problems.

You aren't the one who is supposed to know about side effects, etc. The vet should have known about it and told you. 'Dammit' indeed.


"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
hey what's wrong here??

All the typed written posts are a black screen. I can see the avatars and everything else but not the typed posts. Shock

I wonder if I will be able to see this post LOL
 
Sinny
whoa I can only see the emoticon Shock on a black post
 
Skeeve
I do believe it's probably the Theme you're using Sinny. Let me know what it is so I can correct it.
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
Sinny
That was freaky LOL. It's ok now. I'm using Aztec and it's kind of a little brighter than normal now but then my light bulbs burned out in my room here and that's probably why the screen is so bright LOL.

That was funny before.
 
Skeeve
Hehe, sorry about that.
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
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