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Happy Merci-Giving
neilmarr
Seems Thanksgiving should really be in June. That's the month French settlers, escaping sectarian violence at home, arrived in the New World (Florida to be exact) almost one hundred years before the Mayflower pilgrims from Plymouth, England arrived to set up their religious community.

Maybe you should be munching frogs' legs and snails instead of turkey and pumpkin pie (and maybe that's why the French landing is overlooked -- if so, I don't blame you).

True to form, the Huguenot (Protestant) French were condemned as heretics by the Catholic Church, which sent out Spanish massacre squads to deal with them: not, the Church made clear, an attack against France, but against heresy.

Short but interesting article in todays New York Times is here: http://www.nytime...&th&emc=th

Whatever you celebrate on Thursday, all power to your right elbows, US chums. Reason's Greetings, as our AT alternative to 'holy days' wishes seems to have become.

Cheers. Neil
Edited by neilmarr on 11/26/2008 07:29
 
seeker
Snails are good, would make for an expensive Thanksgiving though
 
Cynic
I wouldn't be so jealous of Thanksgiving -- it's an event that marks the gratefulness the Pilgrims had toward their native neighbors because their incompetent asses wouldn't have survived the winter without them. (History shows how thankful they were once they got their footing.)

 
Doubting Thomas
[fundie revisionist mode]Thanksgiving was the celebration the Pilgrims had for giving thanks to God for getting them through the winter, which shows what the power of prayer can do. The Pilgrims invited the savage indians to feast with them in order to show them what kind of bountiful harvest one can have by accepting Jesus Christ as their lord & savior, and showed that it's the duty of every good Christian to witness to all godless heathens everywhere. The Pilgrims also realized that since God let them survive the winter that they should make the new land a Christian land with good Puritan values, but which unfortunately was eventually taken over by evil, godless democrats.[/fundie revisionist mode]
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
catman
The Pilgrims also set up their own intolerant little satrapy, and gave the gift of smallpox to the 'savages'.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
seeker
Thanks for the food, here's a disease.Grin
 
Doubting Thomas
What did you expect from a group of people trying to settle a land with guns & bibles but no farm implements?
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
seeker
Well it worked didn't it? They used the bibles to justify using the guns to kill the natives and take their stuff.Cool
 
RayvenAlandria
I thought the whole pilgrims feasting with the Indians was a made up story? It was taught to us in school but many years later I read it was a bunch of crap and never happened. I don't remember where I read that though and I don't have time to look it up to see if my memory is wrong.
 
derF
You might be interested in a 2005 movie called the New World starring Colin Farrell as John Smith. Although some of it employed too much artistic license the earlier portions accurately depicted the kindness and conflicts between the settlers and the indigent peoples. (now referred to as native Americans) The English repayed the natives with savage brutality. Other than that the movie was a long drawn out boring piece of shit with too much footage of actors faces as they emoted. Yawn.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Hypatia
Very interesting Neil. Thanks for this post.

I have to say I'm not surprised at all. There have been many times that I've wondered how much of the history I've been taught is wrong - be it because of lies, false history, inaccurate history, etc. I suspect much of it is inaccurate, at best.

 
Sinny
I remember my Mother saying "those indians got what they deserved, they murdered and scalped people". My answer "well Mom if we didn't attack them first, kill them, steel their land they wouldn't have scalped anyone". I got hell for saying that. Years later I added "steal their food and assume they were devils for wearing make up and dressing different". Now I just get dirty looks. Being older has it's advantages Cool
 
catman
Good for you, Sinny. IMO, what was done to the Indians was nothing short of genocide, even though the spreading of disease was hardly intentional (no one knew how it worked then).
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Doubting Thomas
Though they did know if they gave blankets that belonged to smallpox victims to the Indians, they'd suffer from the disease as well, and since they had little immunity to the disease most died.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
catman
They didn't mind if the Indians got smallpox, that's for sure.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
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