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I wanna move to Vermont
RayvenAlandria
My daughter-in-law sent me the text of an article she read. The article states that Vermont is a very non-religious state, which I have heard in the past. I have an old friend who lives there, she's Buddhist and she claims that religion is a non-issue there. Perhaps we need to move to Vermont when we retire.

My theory is that Vermont is non-religious because the majority of it's citizens are highly educated and wealthy compared to places like Mississippi and this rathole we call Oklahoma.
__________________________________________________




WASHINGTON (USA TODAY) - Want to be almost certain you'll have religious neighbors? Move to Mississippi. Prefer to be in the least religious state? Venture to Vermont.


A new Gallup Poll, based on more than 350,000 interviews, finds that the Magnolia State is the one where the most people - 85% - say yes when asked "Is religion an important part of your daily life?"

Less than half of Vermonters, meanwhile - 42% - answered that same question in the affirmative.

Joining Mississippi in the top "most religious" states are other notches in the Bible Belt: Alabama (82%), South Carolina (80%), Tennessee (79%), Louisiana (78%), and Arkansas (78%).


New England predominates in the top "least religious" states: Following Vermont are New Hampshire (46%), Maine (48%), Massachusetts (48%), Alaska (51%) and Washington (52%).


"Clearly, states in the South in particular, but also some states in the Southwest and Rocky Mountains ... have very religious residents and New England states in particular, coupled with states like Alaska and others, are irreligious," said Frank Newport, editor-in-chief of The Gallup Poll.


The reasons why, however, are far less clear, observers said.


For example, some might attribute the religiosity of Mississippi to the high percentage of African-Americans - long known for being comparatively highly religious - who live there.


"Mississippi is still No. 1, even if we look only at whites," said Newport. "Whites in Mississippi are also very religious.
"

Overall, Gallup researchers found that 65% of all Americans said religion was important in their daily lives. The total sample of 355,334 U.S. adults, including respondents with land-line telephones and cellular phones, had a margin of error of plus or minus 1 percentage point. Some states had margins of error as high as plus or minus 4 percentage points.


Newport was surprised that one state - Utah - did not make the "most religious" list, given the state's large Mormon population.


"They apparently have two kinds of people in the state," he said. "They have the very religious and devout Mormon population but it also looks like they have a lot of nonreligious people.
"

Mark Silk, director of the Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life, said Gallup's findings reflect research conclusions from the upcoming American Religious Identification Survey, which he is working on with other scholars.


"New England is now slightly ahead of the Pacific Northwest in terms of the high rate of unchurched people," said Silk, co-author of One Nation, Divisible: How Regional Religious Differences Shape American Politics.


Although evangelicalism may be making some inroads in Western states like Washington and Oregon, he attributes the predominance of New England states in the "least religious" category more other demographic trends in the Northeast.


"What we are finding ... is a considerable drop in New England in the Catholic population," said Silk, whose center is based in Hartford, Conn.


And it's a matter of them moving away from the church, he said, not the region. "Catholics are holding their own nationwide because of Latino immigration but, relatively speaking, there's little of that in New England.
"

Silk suspects some Catholics have left the church because of the Catholic sex abuse scandal that first erupted in Boston, which "kind of pushed some sort of relatively loose affiliation Catholics over the edge.
"

For his part, Newport said Catholics overall no longer are more religious than the average American - when it comes to stating the importance of religion or in attending church services -- but it's hard to specify exactly why New England states figure so prominently in the "least religious" states.


"They're about average and that's a change," he said. "It used to be you'd find Catholics significantly higher. ... I don't know to what degree that would affect what's going on in New England."

Edited by RayvenAlandria on 01/30/2009 15:15
 
Bob of QF
RayvenAlandria wrote:
... and this rathole we call Oklahoma.

...
Joining Mississippi in the top "most religious" states are other notches in the Bible Belt: Alabama (82%), South Carolina (80%), Tennessee (79%), Louisiana (78%), and Arkansas (78%).



And yet, OK is not listed in the top 5.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
RayvenAlandria
Yes, this is odd but I have a theory about that too. You see, when we were slated to move here I did some research into Oklahoma and was thrilled to find the statistics showing that it had a high rate of non-Christians. I was actually looking forward to moving here.

After we moved here we found a different story, it is FAR worse here for Atheists than it was in Mississippi, and I never thought anyplace could get worse than that place. (except maybe South Carolina).

I suspect that when the census was taken, the questions were skewed and all the Native Americans who chose a Native American religion over Christianity were tagged as "non-religious" or "other". That would explain the strange statical data. The cities are most definitely full of not only christians, but hateful christians.
 
Bob of QF
I'm sorry you're having such a horrible time here in Tulsa.

I've been here for many years, and I find that the majority of the neighbors on my street are likable folk, mostly they ignore religion. I have watched, and few attend church, instead are out yard working, hunting, etc.

I suppose, if pressed with in-your-face questions, many would claim affinity to xianism, but none proselytize that I've seen.

Occasionally, I get a tract-on-the door from some of the local wanna-be churches-- so far, I've not managed to catch any at it. Else I'd have a few humorous things to ask them about. Grin

I'm especially hoping to catch the Johova's witnesses, who leave occasional fliers...I've a couple of questions regarding their 144,000 mythology. Rofl

I dunno why you're having such a poor time of it, Ray.... I wish I could offer some relief, I do.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
RayvenAlandria
1. I dress *differently*

Differently around here seems to make people think you're a Satanist who wants to murder their children. The kids who live catty-corner to our house actually panic and run into the house when we go outside. No joke, the girl looks to be about 14 and she looked scared shitless and ran into the house last week when we were going to the truck. We've never met or spoken with these people.

2. I'm female. To be honest, the Xtian females tend to be much more rude than males are. When they see a female who looks *different* they snarl and make strange noises. I am so sick of being treated like shit when I go shopping that I have actually switched back to wearing *normal* boring clothes. It's sad that I can't be myself.

3. My husband is Hispanic. People here are incredibly racist. I've never seen racist crap this out in the open before. There are too many stories to tell, so many things have happened since we moved here.

4. I made the mistake of putting a small "Atheist" sticker on my door hoping it would deter religious weirdos from knocking and bothering me. A neighbor, (whom we'd never met or spoken to), came over and asked if we were Satanist and informed us that all the neighborhood kids were scared. People here are so incredibly stupid it boggles my mind.

I think life here is different for you because you are a normal dressing white male and you probably don't advertise your beliefs. (I don't either anymore).

If everyone in the State suddenly became sterile and could not breed I would celebrate.
 
Nails3Jesus0
RayvenAlandria wrote:
If everyone in the State suddenly became sterile and could not breed I would celebrate.


Ouch.
 
jayon
RayvenAlandria wrote:
1. I dress *differently*

Differently around here seems to make people think you're a Satanist who wants to murder their children. The kids who live catty-corner to our house actually panic and run into the house when we go outside. No joke, the girl looks to be about 14 and she looked scared shitless and ran into the house last week when we were going to the truck. We've never met or spoken with these people.

2. I'm female. To be honest, the Xtian females tend to be much more rude than males are. When they see a female who looks *different* they snarl and make strange noises. I am so sick of being treated like shit when I go shopping that I have actually switched back to wearing *normal* boring clothes. It's sad that I can't be myself.

3. My husband is Hispanic. People here are incredibly racist. I've never seen racist crap this out in the open before. There are too many stories to tell, so many things have happened since we moved here.

4. I made the mistake of putting a small "Atheist" sticker on my door hoping it would deter religious weirdos from knocking and bothering me. A neighbor, (whom we'd never met or spoken to), came over and asked if we were Satanist and informed us that all the neighborhood kids were scared. People here are so incredibly stupid it boggles my mind.

I think life here is different for you because you are a normal dressing white male and you probably don't advertise your beliefs. (I don't either anymore).

If everyone in the State suddenly became sterile and could not breed I would celebrate.


I hear you on the differences. I'm not even that 'different'. All I have is long hair, but I hang around a lot of people that dress differently and are different. It's not that I like different people, it's just that I don't like people that just follow the crowd. Either way, for one, I get a whole hell of a lot of 'christian looking' (I suppose) people asking me if I have drugs to sell. The other is that I get a lot of looks and even some people that want to tell me that I'm hangin around the wrong people. If they get me in the wrong mood, those are fighting words. Most of the time I politely tell them (as bad as that might sound) that they are being racist. Believe it or not, I've had a person say to me, "no, I'm not against blacks, but we need to stick to our own kind." To which I told the person that we were all "our own kind" and he needs not ever speak to me again. If it wasn't for the fact that I would have been out on the streets that night I would have just clocked him. Hopefully, I instead got him to think about his own words. I didn't mean to go into a rant, but I just came from a place full of people like that, even though there was a mix of people. The biggest reason I didn't hang with the lighter skinned people there was that they were the most racist. Worse, they didn't even know it. It seemed to me that I was the only person to tell them that they were completely fucked up. Well, I'm done ranting.
 
RayvenAlandria
I guess I don't want every person in Oklahoma to go sterile, just the creepy ones.

Truthfully, I am sure there are some nice people around here...somewhere.
We tend to not notice the people who pass us by and pay no attention to us, we notice the ones who snarl or call us names, refuse to give us service, shove us, etc...

It does seem that Oklahoma has more abusive, racist people than other areas we've lived in, but I am sure that there are a few non-bigoted people here.

Jayon, I come across many people like the ones you describe. It seems that a lot of people really don't see themselves as racist, and yet they are. It's kind of like how certain kinds of religious people see themselves as "loving and kind" and yet they treat people who are not of their religion like garbage. They honestly see no problem with the way they behave.
 
Sinny
Wow would never have expected to hear this about Vermont. I hear Canada isn't all that religious either and they have great medical care too.

BTW I remember back in 1990 or 1993 I forget exactly which year it was were I got the census in the mail that year. Well that year I had to answer questions pertaining to how many people in my household and what race they were as well, which I found to be an odd question, anyways among those questions was what religion I was and I chose christian at the time. I figured don't trust the gov't with that information.

What gets me is that they started it in the mail and not door to door that year. They used to come door to door with stupid questions that were really not their business. The last time they came to my door, prior to receiving it in the mail, I called up and complained and suggested they send the census by mail b/c people are busy, feel violated with personal questions being asked by a person at their door , and are more likely to answer the census questions and be more honest if it is done by the mail. Having people in your area knowing your personal information is risking that person will talk to others in your area about you. I was told they are confidential and cannot do that. I laughed and said I see why people avoid answering the door since you people have no clue that neighbors talk about each other. Ever since then I was leary of any information I give out at the census so I lie. Regareless of what every census or the Gallop Poll. so I wouldn't move to Vermont or anywhere based on what anyone poll says. Best to rent an apt. for a few months first then see how it really is Wink

assuming one could afford to.
 
catman
Yeah, Vermont is a fairly liberal place politically too. If only it had a more appealing climate. Nice place to visit, it's a beautiful place, but its winters are c-c-cold.
Edited by catman on 02/01/2009 02:23
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Bob of QF
RayvenAlandria wrote:
1. I dress *differently*

Differently around here seems to make people think you're a Satanist who wants to murder their children. The kids who live catty-corner to our house actually panic and run into the house when we go outside. No joke, the girl looks to be about 14 and she looked scared shitless and ran into the house last week when we were going to the truck. We've never met or spoken with these people.

2. I'm female. To be honest, the Xtian females tend to be much more rude than males are. When they see a female who looks *different* they snarl and make strange noises. I am so sick of being treated like shit when I go shopping that I have actually switched back to wearing *normal* boring clothes. It's sad that I can't be myself.

3. My husband is Hispanic. People here are incredibly racist. I've never seen racist crap this out in the open before. There are too many stories to tell, so many things have happened since we moved here.

4. I made the mistake of putting a small "Atheist" sticker on my door hoping it would deter religious weirdos from knocking and bothering me. A neighbor, (whom we'd never met or spoken to), came over and asked if we were Satanist and informed us that all the neighborhood kids were scared. People here are so incredibly stupid it boggles my mind.

I think life here is different for you because you are a normal dressing white male and you probably don't advertise your beliefs. (I don't either anymore).

If everyone in the State suddenly became sterile and could not breed I would celebrate.


Again, I'm truly sorry you had to experience that.

I used to live in a neighborhood that had vandals, from a nice "christian" home.

When confronted about it, "boys will be boys" was the brush-off...as I had no pictures or proof, just my word...

...I no longer live in that neighborhood, and I had forgotten how small people can be.

Well, I can hope that soon, you get enough funding to move somewhere else, for your sanity, if nothing else.

And you're right: I don't advertise my beliefs (or lack thereof), but if asked, I'm happy to tell...

But I *am* sitting in ambush for the next time those JW's come by... <evil grin>

I ought to print up some nice anti-bible, pro-atheist tracts to hand to *them*.... <heheheheheh>
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
RayvenAlandria
Thanks Bob.

It's not a matter of funding, my husband is in the military. We cannot move until we get reassigned. We'll be here for a few more years.
 
jayon
Bob of QF wrote:...

I ought to print up some nice anti-bible, pro-atheist tracts to hand to *them*.... <heheheheheh>


Normal Bob Smith has some (under 'products' then 'pamphlets' )...

www.normalbobsmith.com/free/flyers/pamphlet_gif_inside.jpg
 
catman
That's rather good. I especially like the "Take full responsibility for your actions, you deadbeat! You people take the cake! Christ!"Smile
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Bob of QF
RayvenAlandria wrote:
Thanks Bob.

It's not a matter of funding, my husband is in the military. We cannot move until we get reassigned. We'll be here for a few more years.


Oooh, that's unfortunate.

But, let me give your husband a great big "thank you" and a KUDOS for serving.

The military is rampant with religious abuse, too....it's in the news about commanders abusing their superior position with religious bigotry.

I hope your hubby doesn't have to deal with any of that.

*sigh*

The good news, is that 2 years, in the grand scheme of things is not long... hang in there, we're pulling for you.

Remember: we're all in this together!

(last two phrases are from the Red Green show, but I like'em)
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Bob of QF
Thanks, Jayon!

I especially liked the last one:

Hey, I once accidentally invited God into my heart. Am I fucked?

Oh, you're fine. He ain't there....


Rofl
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Kallistie
Bob of QF wrote:
...hang in there, we're pulling for you.

Remember: we're all in this together!

(last two phrases are from the Red Green show, but I like'em)

Red Green = WIN. LOVE that show.

JWs are THE most fun. Even better than when you tell Mormons their god is an alien.

We had some come by my house one time, and I was the only one outside. It was two old ladies and a man.
Old Lady 1: Hi, we're from the church that opened just down the way and--
Me: The Jehova's Witness place?
OL1: Oh good, you know about us! We were just wondering if anyone in your home was looking for religion...?
Me: Uuuhm, no, thanks. We're good right now.
OL1: *gets really, really angry* I demand to speak to your mother!
 
Cynic
The last paragraph reminds of a line from a Modest Mouse song (The Ocean Breathes Salty): "you wasted life; why wouldn't you waste the afterlife?"

Good pamphlet!
 
RayvenAlandria
Thanks Jayon.

Yes, we've had to deal with religious shit in the military. Many things have happened over the years. One of the guys he works with now is one of those who thinks it's appropriate to send religious crap to coworkers. On Christmas my husband's cell got a text that was so disgustingly religious that it royally pissed me off. (God's glory, reason for the season, stand tall against ungoldly evil etc... crap). I was so angry I wanted William to file a complaint against the guy, but he's too timid to do things like that. I'm still pissed and told William he'd better make sure the creep and I are never in the same room.

I made it clear to him last year that I want NOTHING to do with the people he works with. His boss suggested we talk with his ex-wife when we arrived and were looking to buy a new house. (She was a loan officer.) When she spied on my private notes on the real estate web site she sent us to and saw that I had called Oral Roberts University a sheeple farm she refused to do business with us because we were atheists. I had made a note on one house that said " Nice house but make sure it's not too close to the sheeple farm". This note was supposed to be private notes to self and the bitch was reading them. We should have sued her and the company she worked with but we didn't want to start a war with his boss that might affect his career. I wish now we would have gone ahead and sued. It's been over a year so I'm not sure whether we can still do it, especially since she lost her job at that place. (no idea why, probably because she's such a bitch).
 
Bob of QF
RayvenAlandria wrote:
. (no idea why, probably because she's such a bitch).


Probably because she refused to do business with anyone who's not "her people".

Real estate brokers are in the business to sell houses, not preach the "gospel".

You can't afford to alienate *any* group, no matter how small....real estate is too much of a rat-race.

There's always another broker down the street, who is more polite...
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
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