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Obama's church dilemma
catman
I saw this story on the SBC-Yahoo start page today:
"Obama's church of choice a tough decision", subtitled
"In the wake of the controversy created by his former pastor, the president is relying on a team to vet potential church choices"

That seems awfully cynical to me. Comments?
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
RayvenAlandria
How odd. Maybe he should just go to a Unitarian Universalist church and refuse to answer questions about what religion he actually is.
 
Doubting Thomas
Good idea. That way, if he is indeed nonreligious, he could appear to be religious to the right wing fundies by simply identifying with a religion, even though UU doesn't rely on belief in a creator God.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
Bob of QF
catman wrote:
I saw this story on the SBC-Yahoo start page today:
"Obama's church of choice a tough decision", subtitled
"In the wake of the controversy created by his former pastor, the president is relying on a team to vet potential church choices"

That seems awfully cynical to me. Comments?


Either that, or *extremely* practical-minded.

So practically minded, that he doesn't care that much, about the details, but only the form, shape and apparent consequences of whichever he chooses.

Either a very savvy political move, or as you implied, just appealing to the fundiots out there.

Personally, I think he ought to have them choose some pastor or other, from among the millions in the US, to be his personal ball-washer---err, no, sorry. Channeling Lewis Black for a moment.

To be his personal pastor, who comes to the White House on Sundays, and holds "church" for appearances sake.

Didn't one of the recent modern pres'nits do exactly this? I forget...
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
It seems to me to be a gambit to find the most politically unobjectionable church. Perhaps it's a 'savvy political move', all right, but I don't think it would appeal to the 'fundiots' (I like that word). It does make me wonder just how much of a believer he is if he can allow a church to be selected for him, rather than digging in his heels about one or another. Being so calculated and rational about an irrational matter seems odd.

I don't think the UU church wuld be seen as a legitimate choice by some. It simply isn't Jesusy enough.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Bob of QF
Actually, I can relate to Obama's methods. Back when I was still trying to be a believer, I searched around for a church home.

The details were what mattered more than the overall theology. And the people are in the details; the generalized theology was close enough for me at the time. Besides, most large churches are pretty loose with the finer points of theology anyway: they recognize they have too many people to be really offensively dogmatic, so they keep the theology along safe, general lines.

The only time you see strict adherence to a particular dogma, is within small or very small groups. Example: the Phelps bunch.

Cementing the dogma into stone is apt to run paying customers--err--followers off.

So, I really don't see the problem with Obama's methodology-- he likely outlined generalized theological limits for the search, in keeping with his general ideas about what he believes.

Why shouldn't shopping for a church be a logical, rational behavior?
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
The Catholic Church is a very large group, and it insists upon strict adherence to dogma, although in practice there are a lot of 'buffet Catholics' who think they can pick and choose, although according to the Church, they can't.

As for "Why shouldn't shopping for a church be a logical, rational behavior?", I never thought I'd see that question. I suppose in his case, 'logical and rational' fit, as far as pleasing the largest possible number politically is concerned. It still strikes me as somewhat odd that his beliefs would be amenable to his choice of church being 'vetted'. You are probably right that he set up preconditions for the search.


"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Bob of QF
catman wrote:
The Catholic Church is a very large group, and it insists upon strict adherence to dogma, although in practice there are a lot of 'buffet Catholics' who think they can pick and choose, although according to the Church, they can't.

As for "Why shouldn't shopping for a church be a logical, rational behavior?", I never thought I'd see that question. I suppose in his case, 'logical and rational' fit, as far as pleasing the largest possible number politically is concerned. It still strikes me as somewhat odd that his beliefs would be amenable to his choice of church being 'vetted'. You are probably right that he set up preconditions for the search.



One *can* be logical when dealing with illogical concepts.

It's that the initial concepts are illogical, and must be believed. From that point forward, you can apply logic to it.

It is what I do, actually, when arguing with believers-- I apply logic to their belief-statements, and show them the logical consequences of their beliefs.

But you could easily be logical about which church you like-- aside from your correct observations about Catholics, most churches are not that cut-and-dried with regards to minute points of dogma.

In fact, individual Catholic churches are not that solid in their slavish servitude to the pope. As long as the local congregation does not make serious waves, many are apt to be quite liberal... quite.

Some even get themselves tossed out of the Catholic League.. <eyeroll>
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
I couldn't help being reminded of some of the right-wing nuts. If you can accept the 'givens', the rest can make perfect sense. I read Rush Limbaugh's book The Way Things Ought to Be, and most of it is quite logical, but it takes for granted very questionable underlying conservative points.

You are of course right. Logic in the service of illogic.Wink

The Catholic League...:rolleyes: indeed!
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Bob of QF
catman wrote:
The Catholic League...:rolleyes: indeed!


You know about that site? It's mostly run single-handedly by a real nutcase.

At least according to PZ Myers over at Pharyngula. And, frankly, I'd take PZ's word on the issue over any catholics.... <heh>
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
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