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Well...we knew it had to happen sooner or later.
Sinny
Nationwide web sales tax now a real possibility
Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:11PM EDT
See Comments (32)

Buzz up!on Yahoo!Never mind Amazon's squabble with New York over collecting sales tax on purchases completed over the web. The possibility of a national Internet sales tax is now more real than ever.

The New York Post, of all places, broke the story of a bill set to be introduced in Congress this week that would pave the way for the controversial collection of sales taxes for purchases made online. Since 1998, Congress has expressly prohibited the establishment of web-specific sales taxes as the government has sought to encourage development and innovation in the high-tech world. But now, with state sales tax collections reportedly hitting a 50-year low, the time for special treatment of online entities -- seen as freeloading their way to those funds by many -- may be coming to an end.

The new bill seems to skirt the existing law because it applies on a national scale and hits both Internet and traditional mail-order companies, thus it doesn't enact a special tax on web sales alone.

Regardless of the way it gets through the loophole, enacting a broad national sales tax is clearly seen as low-hanging fruit, an easy way to collect money from the populace on purchases that will likely be made one way or another. States and municipalities would receive the cash directly from the retailers, based on the location of the consumer completing the purchase.

Retailers are practically in tears over the possibility of such a bill becoming law, as it would require a massive headache in the tracking and management of several thousand local sales tax laws: Each purchase would be subject to potential sales taxes levied by a state, county, and/or city, thus making for a hugely complicated process, not to mention the actual payment of those taxes on a regular basis. The bill, however, is said to include language to attempt to simplify this process to some extent; how it would do so remains to be seen.

The prospects for such a bill reaching Obama's desk are as yet unknown, but it is being crafted by a bipartisan duo and, since it essentially amounts to free money for the government, it's hard to imagine it won't be seriously considered by legislators.

Previously: Internet sales taxes creeping closer to reality


http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/139681

As I remember it way back in 1989 it bacame official that every County in the Country would have an added branch of government so as to imitate the Senate and Congress in each County. Well that branch costs tax payers thousands in salaries alone every paycheck that new branch of government receives. Yep the salaries of not only the executives but the personnel. Lets not forget the new satationary for every new elected official and new office materials for their secretaries/aides. The new offices that had to be built for the new branch and personnel, etc., for those new branches of government that never existed before 1989.

Am I surprised the government won't cut back on made up branches of government .....nope. Now why hurt business's and the consumer when the government has already added to itself costing billions more, over the course of 20 years, than what they will get in internet sales taxes. Yeah I repeated myself. It makes no sense Angry
 
catman
To put it as politely as I can, that BLOWS.Angry
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
It sure does Catman. What a headache it's going to be if you purchase from company out of state and that same company doesn't have a retailer/business in the state you live you. If their tax is higher than you County/State tax already is they you pay their amount unless they have, as I said, a company based in your State.

Also what about Companies that don't have a retail outlet or store but operate out of their warehouse. They save money on not paying rents for the retail stores where the customer would normally go to purchase their product. They should have to foot the bill for the tax not the customer. It's already expensive enough on some products with the shipping/handling/postage now they want to add sales tax for internet shoppers. That's going to put a huge crunch on businesses. Lets not forget the money the US postal services makes with the internet sales and UPS, FedEX, etc. this could have some impact on a lot of business as well as the government. So they have to decide if it's worth it to have this internet tax or just do with out it and keep business going and growing. I know I will cut down a lot more if I have to pay more money to buy online. This is going to hurt a lot of businesses and people who can't get out to the stores or afford the extra money.
 
catman
The only silver lining (so to speak) that I can see is that it might help local businesses some, since the playing field will be more nearly level. I'm just playing devil's advocate. It's just greedy gov't reaching for more.

I cannot imagine Craigslist with sales tax added...that would be an impossible mess if it applied to them. They aren't retailers, though, just an online classified-ad service, so it probably wouldn't.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Cynic
Rather than help local business, I suspect it will in the long run only help large, multi-state chains. If the only thing you need to do to avoid the taxes and get customers to continue to consider you a viable place to shop is to have "a retail store" in the state someplace, then that's going to be the winning strategy. But only businesses that are already big and capable of opening retail stores will be able to manage that.

This bill isn't being sponsored by Republicans, is it?
 
Bob of QF
Sinny wrote:
Nationwide web sales tax now a real possibility
Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:11PM EDT
See Comments (32)

Buzz up!on Yahoo!Never mind Amazon's squabble with New York over collecting sales tax on purchases completed over the web. The possibility of a national Internet sales tax is now more real than ever.

The New York Post, of all places, broke the story of a bill set to be introduced in Congress this week that would pave the way for the controversial collection of sales taxes for purchases made online. Since 1998, Congress has expressly prohibited the establishment of web-specific sales taxes as the government has sought to encourage development and innovation in the high-tech world. But now, with state sales tax collections reportedly hitting a 50-year low, the time for special treatment of online entities -- seen as freeloading their way to those funds by many -- may be coming to an end.

The new bill seems to skirt the existing law because it applies on a national scale and hits both Internet and traditional mail-order companies, thus it doesn't enact a special tax on web sales alone.

Regardless of the way it gets through the loophole, enacting a broad national sales tax is clearly seen as low-hanging fruit, an easy way to collect money from the populace on purchases that will likely be made one way or another. States and municipalities would receive the cash directly from the retailers, based on the location of the consumer completing the purchase.

Retailers are practically in tears over the possibility of such a bill becoming law, as it would require a massive headache in the tracking and management of several thousand local sales tax laws: Each purchase would be subject to potential sales taxes levied by a state, county, and/or city, thus making for a hugely complicated process, not to mention the actual payment of those taxes on a regular basis. The bill, however, is said to include language to attempt to simplify this process to some extent; how it would do so remains to be seen.

The prospects for such a bill reaching Obama's desk are as yet unknown, but it is being crafted by a bipartisan duo and, since it essentially amounts to free money for the government, it's hard to imagine it won't be seriously considered by legislators.

Previously: Internet sales taxes creeping closer to reality


http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/139681

As I remember it way back in 1989 it bacame official that every County in the Country would have an added branch of government so as to imitate the Senate and Congress in each County. Well that branch costs tax payers thousands in salaries alone every paycheck that new branch of government receives. Yep the salaries of not only the executives but the personnel. Lets not forget the new satationary for every new elected official and new office materials for their secretaries/aides. The new offices that had to be built for the new branch and personnel, etc., for those new branches of government that never existed before 1989.

Am I surprised the government won't cut back on made up branches of government .....nope. Now why hurt business's and the consumer when the government has already added to itself costing billions more, over the course of 20 years, than what they will get in internet sales taxes. Yeah I repeated myself. It makes no sense Angry


I tried to find more info (via Google) on a National Sales Tax, and could not find *anything* in the news, within the past month.

Do you have another source of this? SNOPES.COM did not have anything either.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Sinny
I originally found this in Hypatia's thread about Stephen Hawking.

Here's two more and 3 if you are registered in the last one.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090423/pl_usnw/netchoice_issues_statement_opposing_expected_federal_internet_sales_tax_legislation__executive_director_steve_delbianco_availab[/url]



[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090423/pl_usnw/netchoice_issues_statement_opposing_expected_federal_internet_sales_tax_legislation__executive_director_steve_delbianco_availab[/url]


I can't get this one since I am not registered here:
[url]
http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/Google_Denies_UK_Tax_Avoidance_xxxx36358.html[/url]
 
cheshiredragon
What about the stores that have no brick and mortar locations? I shop NEWEGG.com ALL the time for my computer stuffs and they only have warehouses. I can surely tell you that IF this happens. I will not be shopping online anymore unless absolutely necessary. How dare you slam me with a sales tax on top of shipping. I'll waste the 2
That's right, I said it...
 
Bob of QF
Sinny wrote:
I originally found this in Hypatia's thread about Stephen Hawking.

Here's two more and 3 if you are registered in the last one.

[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090423/pl_usnw/netchoice_issues_statement_opposing_expected_federal_internet_sales_tax_legislation__executive_director_steve_delbianco_availab[/url]



[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090423/pl_usnw/netchoice_issues_statement_opposing_expected_federal_internet_sales_tax_legislation__executive_director_steve_delbianco_availab[/url]


I can't get this one since I am not registered here:
[url]
http://www.tax-news.com/asp/story/Google_Denies_UK_Tax_Avoidance_xxxx36358.html[/url]


Okay, that sales tax issue.

That's been brewing since roughly 2000. It's not a "national sales tax" but rather allowing states to enforce sales tax on *any* transaction within their states-- that is, the state the buyer lives in would collect sales tax from the catalog/internet purchase.

Unfortunately, nobody has yet come up with a system that would work, and be enforceable.

The states have no jurisdiction over the companies not headquartered within their boundaries-- by definition.

In fact, according to the Constitution, only the US National government has the jurisdiction to control interstate commerce.

Thus, any law that forced state sales tax for transactions across state lines would violate this point, and be unconstitutional.

Which is probably why nothing has been done so far.

The states are salivating over potential revenue-- but they don't have any basis for collecting it.

I'm not all that worried.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
Thanks for the clarification, Bob. I'm not worried either any more.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
That's the argument that's been brewing Bob but lately it's you may have to pay the sales tax the State you purchase from charges unless there's a home base, so to speak, warehouse, store in your State from where you live. Another words say you live in Texas and want to purchase online a product that comes out of New Mexico. Unless that Company has a home base in Texas you pay New Mexico's sales tax otherwise you pay your Texas sales tax. So if you want someting on the internet that's not available in your State you're shit out of luck with not paying that tax. Either way it doesn't seem right to have to pay sales tax and shipping and hanldling but it's done with catalog orders through the mail so they want the same for internet shopping.

Now thet are looking into a set rate for all States in the Country for all internet shopping so that clears up any boundry problems or confusion as to how much the Companies can charge the custermer no matter where the customer resides, where the purchase is from or if there is a home base/ another warehouse/retail in the purchasers State.

Just charge a set rate for all products purchased online, it's simple if they get Obama to go for it. If this happens they could just add the set rate tax to all products in with the original price and the customer would never know the difference.

This is why many people in my State drive to another State [not saying which one on the open forum] because the sales tax is cheaper outside of my State. Well we won't have that option with internet purchasing...we can't choose another internet to use.
 
Hypatia
IMO its good to shop local businesses when possible, as opposed to large chain stores and restaurants, and this includes farmer's markets.

Shopping online is definitely convenient, and there are times it's the best way, or maybe the only way, to make a purchase, and/or to receive the best price. But I think local merchants have a struggle with so many large retail choices around.

On top of this issue of taxing, there are no doubt going to be many more issues connected with commerce on the Internet that will need to be addressed and settled in the future - this is but one of many. That'a a given, and understood, etc., but these could be compelling reasons to use alternative 'shopping' methods.

 
Sinny
I sure do agree with you Hypatia with shopping in local businesses. Many times I have searched for products in my area but sometimes I just have no other choice but to purchase where I can get what I need.

I searched for flooring I want and typed in the model # of what I knew I wanted and found a local store right next to my town Smile so a lot of little businesses/mom and pop, if there's any left, can have a website to show people what they have to offer this gives them an edge with competition. People usually go into google, yahoo or dogpile to search for a product and if the little local shop wants more customers they will be in there with their products. I know two Brothers who I tell all the time "you guys have to start showing what you have to offer on your website" I tell them take pictures of your samples, your show room and even yourselves...sheesh your dog if you have to. But they are slow at getting around to it. Pictures always help with me not just a phone number and address with typed out description of products. I want to see what I want without having to travel all through the entire State to find which local store has what I want. Especiall when it comes to certain [big] products. I hate it when I go to 3-4 stores to find something and not a one has what I'm looking for..what a waste of time and gas to boot Sad
 
Sinny
Ha Ha Cynic I keep laughing at what you said:

This bill isn't being sponsored by Republicans, is it?


I wouldn't be surprised to find it is.
 
Bob of QF
Hypatia wrote:
IMO its good to shop local businesses when possible, as opposed to large chain stores and restaurants, and this includes farmer's markets.


Always been my policy, and I go a step farther: if there is an independent business as opposed to Lowe's or Home Depot (national chain) I go with the independent.

I used to be a small business owner myself, so I have sympathy for them. And, I usually get superior customer service-- these small businesses know that referrals are the biggest revenue generators of all.

But, alas-- I have my limits.

I wanted a particular blue-tooth headset (BlueAnt voice controlled headset, if anyone's interested).

None of the small local retailers even knew what it was, let alone had one.

So, off to Best Buy. They carried it, routinely. But: comparison shopping between Amazon and them? 50% mark-up. 50 percent mark-up at Best Buy.... . The price was $129+8.5% sales tax at BB. The price was $70 at Amazon, free shipping, no sales tax (yet).

I could've literally had 2 of these from Amazon for the price of the local retailer.

I did give them the option to match or partially match the price-- they laughed at me (not a good move-- I would've purchased from them with as little as 10% price concession....) so I walked out, and Amazon got my business-- and will likely get my business over Best Buy from now on.....

....not a good idea to laugh at a potential customer....

...for they may become a crusader anti-customer....

A very unctuous, but firm apology is always the best course of action-- I would've still purchased from Amazon, but I would've returned to Best Buy in the future....
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
Best Buy isn't exactly a 'local business' to my way of thinking. It's part of a big chain. I've never been treated badly there, but the salespeople don't always know what they are talking about, sorta like Radio Shack.

When I lived in Denton, 40 miles NNE of Ft Worth, There used to be a nice little convenience store not far from my house, a real Mom & Pop kind of store run by very nice people. (That was a real local business.) But they couldn't compete with 7-11's lower prices. I started going to 7-11, and so did a lot of others, because the little store went belly-up. I still feel guilty about it.
Edited by catman on 04/24/2009 23:40
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
cheshiredragon
catman wrote:
Best Buy isn't exactly a 'local business' to my way of thinking. It's part of a big chain. I've never been treated badly there, but the salespeople don't always know what they are talking about, sorta like Radio Shack.

IMHO, Best Buy SUCKS! Never buy hardware of any kind. It will break and it will break fast!
First incident in 1998 when I bought my first 17in CRT monitor. 14 days to the day it broke. Pressing the power button you could hear a crackling sound. They did good and replaced it without any questions asked and I still have it today. I don't use it much but it is there if I do.
The next incident was in 2000 with a DVD player for the computer. This was back before computers were powerful enough on their own to play DVDs SO it required a hardware decoder card. The thing never worked right from the start, the video was horribly grain and nothing I did cleared it up. It was returned, not replaced.
The last and final incident that bit me in the ass was in 2001 when I bought a NICE standalone SONY DVD Player. 30 days to the day it broke and that was when Best Buy's warranty expired and the manufacturer's began. I take it back to Best Buy anyway and they say to call Sony. Ok, sure, makes perfect sense. Sony says to take it back to Best Buy..............OK. Go back to Best Buy and explained to them what Sony had said. They said they would not honor it and it was Sony's job to replace it. NOW, I am MUCH more mellow now than I was then. I FLIPPED! They called the manager up and he was talking all kinds of shit and that was the point I grabbed the DVD player and threw it at the manager. not just a toss, I monkey threw this thing at him. It missed him and hit some stuff behind him on the wall and I walked out of the store at that point and told them they can shove the 400$ piece of shit up their corporate asses. Simple to say I never went back to THAT store. I have only recently been back to best buy, only to buy DVDs and some computer games. I will only buy software or movies from them now. nothing else.
That's right, I said it...
 
catman
I bought a PC there and it served me well for a few years. It was an IBM Windows 98 machine. My current computer came from Office Depot, and it still plods along, although it's 5 years old (and it acts like a five-year-old at times). I'm trying to decide whether to stick more memory in it (it only has 512K!) or get a new one.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
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