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Singer Ayman Udas ‘shot by her brothers for TV sin’
Skeeve
http://www.timeso...211260.ece


Fellow performers, many of whom have received death threats from hardline Islamist groups, were stunned by the killing.

In recent months several popular artists have been forced to stop performing as singers and comedians. Others have fled the country or moved to other cities.

Initially, it was believed that Udas was killed by an Islamic group. But Usman Khan, her husband, told police in a statement that she had been killed by her brothers because they could not come to terms with her musical career.

He said: “She was killed for breaking her family traditions.”


I glanced at this article yesterday and thought, "More honor killing type shit". Then I read the full article and saw the last sentence. My mind then changed gears and I supposed the family had reasons other than religion for killing her. But, the more I thought about it, religion was probably why the brothers looked at their sister differently, and couldn't accept her career as proper for a Muslim woman.
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
derF
Yeah, this is just more crap like the 8 year old girl being forced to marry some old lecherous bastard. And there will be no retribution because in the end it will be justified as Allah's will. And the instigator of all this, Muhammed, is still thought of as a faultless prophet. Islam has a huge, deep hole it has to extricate itself from before it can stand as equals in the modern world.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
derF wrote:Islam has a huge, deep hole it has to extricate itself from before it can stand as equals in the modern world.

"Equals"? Equal to what? It's no more barbaric than the OT. It's simply a few millenia behind the times. Primitives with nukes.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
derF
Would you let your daughter be sold off to the highest bidder? Would you kill your sister because some bastard attacked and raped her? Come on, Catman. Do you really think there are a lot of free, intelligent, educated women in the world who approve of Islam's treatment of women. I don't read about too many mercy killings or trading of slaves from the Jewish community.
Edited by derF on 05/04/2009 01:07
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
RayvenAlandria
The Jewish community is just as backasswards as the Islamic community. They are both barbaric and idiotic. I know of many Jewish women who were forced to marry strangers and I know of many, many Jewish women who were expected to stay with wife-beaters because it would embarrass the family if they left him. Don't use the Jewish community as an example of a fair society, they are anything but.


Oh and BTW, if you've never heard of slave trading, forcing little girls to marry their rapists, and things of that nature in the Jewish community, you might what to read the bible sometime.
Edited by RayvenAlandria on 05/04/2009 04:54
 
derF
My profound apoligies. I seem to have made a error of time. I thought we were speaking of the present not ancient history. Sheesh how stupid of me. We are all ruthless self seeking abusive SOB's if you want to go into the past to judge us. Don't matter what we do in the present if we are to be judged by our past. But we sure know how to spin.

And I don't use the bible as a reference manual. Sorry
Edited by derF on 05/04/2009 18:56
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
RayvenAlandria
Like I said, I have known Jewish women who were forced to marry a complete stranger or someone they didn't like. I have counseled Jewish women who were being abused by family and/or husbands and who felt they would be killed if they left. This happened in modern times so Jewish old world traditions are still alive in some places. (Texas)

Not all Jewish families and communities behave this way, just as not all Islamic families and communities behave the way you described them. Some families and communities are barbaric, (and IMO, evil), and some are more progressive and non-abusive.
 
derF
I guess it is safe to say, that in all aspects of humanity, or religion, there can be found variants that can be described as anti humanitarian, or, if you will, evil. Evil within the religious community is a continuous and deplorable commonality. As religions have aged and humanity's opinion about them has ebbed and flowed, it has become obvious to religions that, if they are to continue to exist, they must impress the general public that they are benign and not to be feared. Not so sure about Islam.

At this point, I should mention that I should have referred to Jews as Israelis. Because Israel is a Democracy and subject to the accepted rules of a democracy. Democracies, hopefully, respond to the will of the majority of its people. In my never ending search for news articles from the near east I have not ran across any posts that prove the Israelis are going out of their way to be brutal, thuggish, immoral and deadly to their own kind. Maybe they have total control over their news providers. I find examples of this daily in the publications of the Near East/Muslim newspapers. Two today, 4 May 2009. I have no interest in passing judgement on long dead elements of these old religions. I can't change that. I am only interested in what can relieve the suffering and prolong the lives of those who are with us NOW.




Edited because when I am concentrating, punctuation takes a back seat.
Edited by derF on 05/05/2009 02:29
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
JohnH
derf, Gaza, what do you make of that.
 
RayvenAlandria
Sabra

Shatila

1982

Then there are the massacres before and after, it just goes on and on. There are racist zealots on all sides and the genocide just keeps going on and on. I hope someday these whacko religions fade away and these societies will stop trying to wipe each other out. I consider them all evil and I feel very sad for the non-insane people who are forced to live in those countries.
 
derF
JohnH wrote:
derf, Gaza, what do you make of that.


JohnH. The Palestine terrorists in the Gaza Strip had fired hundreds of missiles into southern Israel for months before Israel attacked. What you never hear about unless you go looking for it is that the Gazans (if I may call them that) hide their weapons in schools and mosques and hospitals, apparently unopposed by the inhabitants. And that their soldiers attack when there are lots of innocent civilians around who they hope and know are going to get hurt. They never do anything to protect innocents. They want innocents to die or suffer. Isn't it amazing that during all this chaos there are always terrorists there filming the entire episode for use as propaganda. You don't hear about the streets riddled with IED's. So much so that the Israelis are forced to flatten buildings to avoiding sure death on the roads. Hezbollah in the north did the same thing before (rained milliles down on north Israel) and used the same tactics when Israel was forced to attack southern Lebanon earlier.

Who attacked who for years with suicide bombers of all ages both male and female? Check out these dates in Israel's history and see who instigated war against whom? November 1947. October 1956. June 1967. Then again in 1968 through 1970. October 1973. And June 1982. Ask yourself who has made themselves into a thriving productive country in about 60 years while all of its neighbors have wallowed in ignorance, poverty and failure for much of their history. Who were dancing in the streets for joy on 911? Why has American presidents, both Democrat and Republican, been such staunch supporters of Israel? Who has world class colleges and who's schools teach rote memorization of the Koran, hatred of Jews and the glory of being a martyr. I fear antisemitism is a long way from being dead. Do you really think that if Israel throws down its weapons and surrenders that its neighbors are going to celebrate and go home? We have raged over this topic for years and I have spent way too much time on the internet and in libraries trying to grasp both sides of this grievance and, pardon me, but I think Israel has a much better case, if it came up in a court of law, than her neighbors.
Edited by derF on 05/06/2009 01:24
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
You overlook the fact that Israel was a state imposed on the previous inhabitants, who had been there for centuries. But I certainly don't want to rehash this old argument yet again.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
JohnH
This is an atheist board. One would think that as a consequence of that that religious prejudice would be relatively equal, as in against all.

To me, however the reality has been that all religions are bad but that muslims are the worst.

derF your defense of Israel is but the latest example of that. It is so much a product of AIPAC propaganda that it is hard to respond to. I will not defend the actions of Palestinian suicide bombers and the like. I would point out that a resistance group in a ghetto, much like the Jews in Warsaw, often are amongst the public and therefore members of the public will die with them. I will also point out that during the recent conflict in Gaza some 1000 Palestinians died and something over 10 Israeli’s died, some soldiers from friendly fire. I will also point out that since 1947 far more Palestinian’s have died and been displaced than Jews/Israeli’s.

Hezbollah lobed some rockets into northern Israel. Israel consciously left cluster bombs in southern Lebanon.

This whole conflict was only a conflict between equals in the beginning. As soon as the guilt in the western world, (US and Europe) for what they allowed the Germans to do in WW2 kicked in the Palestinians were toast.

I will not argue that the muslim religion is good, nor will I argue against the possibility that it holds back more social development than other religions. I would argue that to separate that possibility from the socio/economic conditions of the states in which muslimism predominates would take a greater understanding of society than I possess.

To make geopolitical decisions on whether one prefers people of one religion or another is wrong.
 
derF
The victors of WWII made that decision. Palestinians actually are a later creation. Before the Jews only Bedouins frequented the area. And only occasionally at that. Supposedly the Jews settled in Israel after escaping Egypt. But, again, I don't use bibles for reference. I, too, don't want to rehash these already over hashed topics. It seems anything concerning the Israel/Arab conflict us totally unresolvable.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
RayvenAlandria
The average Jew is just as racist and hateful as the average Muslim.

The extremist are all scum, on both sides. I wish they'd all go away or die.

Israel is disgusting country which has done great evil. The same can be said for almost every country on the planet.

I like most individuals, and love many of them greatly, but I find myself on many occasions hating our species as a whole.
 
derF
Maybe the extremist Jew is just as racist and hateful as the extremist Muslim. But the average ones are not. And I did my best to argue for Israel as a democracy and NOT a religion.
Edited by derF on 05/06/2009 02:04
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
JohnH
derF, wrong wrong wrong wrong. What made you drink the zionist cool aid. Sorry, but I wont let this lie.

I know that this is a difficult subject. I know that I probably hold contrarian views.

I think that one of the prominent reasons that it is difficult on this particular board is that there is a definite prejudice against muslims. This prejudice is manifest everywhere in the press and elsewhere and causes people to form opinions that are, if not false or wrong, at least poorly formed.

If we on an atheist board cannot separate religion from political opinion who can.
Edited by JohnH on 05/06/2009 04:11
 
RayvenAlandria
derF, Israel is not what I'd call a democracy. It is a government based on racial/religious hatred and zealots control it. Non-jews living in that *democracy* don't consider it a democracy. IMO, the Israeli government is just as disgusting as Syria's. (or most other middle eastern governments, fill in the blank, so to speak) They are the same to me. Each feels they are the victim and both are full of shit. I hate the Israeli government as much as I do Syria's, Lebanon's, etc...
 
Doubting Thomas
I'm predjudiced against all religions. Smile But can it really be called "prejudice" if you judge based on knowing what the followers of each religion are like?
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
derF
I don't hate or love jews anymore than I hate or love anyone else including atheists. When I think of Israel I think of a country not a religion. I will listen to other peoples opinions and feelings but unless they are backed by hard facts and history I am afraid in my mind they will remain just opinions and feelings.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
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