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Because we get to die
On the sabbath I heard Richard Dawkins on the radio. He as usual was explaining why he was an atheist. I think he made a very trenchant point which I will try to paraphrase.

The fact of our existence is so unlikely that acceptance of it should include an acceptance of death. Life demands death and life is so improbable both as a species and as an individual that to embrace one is to embrace the other.

The short comment made me think of one of my favorite Chi-Lites records "The Man & The Woman".

The opposite of living is not. If dying is a part of living then it must be accepted as part of living.

When I first started to reject religion it was out of boredom and disinterest, as I got more sophisticated it was more out of lack of logic.

Eventually I realized that religion is primarily a death cult. It tries to negate life because the big reward is in death. In death one gets to join the chosen (of whatever form). In life one is only trying to establish that one is among the chosen.

This thinking negates what we do on and what we do to earth our real home. It is extremely negative and extremely damaging, both to our psyche and to our mother the earth.

It is so improbable that you exist embrace it. If embracing life means you die embrace that too.
That's a great point to make. Nobody rides for's another way of saying that we only have one life, so make the most of it.

(Off the main topic: The only Chi-Lites record I am familiar with is their big hit Oh, Girl, but it's one of my all-time favorites.)

"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
It is a death cult John you are right. Especially with the doomsdayers. Of course a lot of christians would say death in belief isn't really death and they think they cheat death because they are obsessed with the supposed after life. It's wishful thinking of course. The real reason is they fear it so much they insist it not be the ultimate end of life and awareness. They might see it as natural at best but certainly not the end of life.

Maybe I will be a little scared when I'm dyeing but not of death but the dyeing part as in struggling to breathe and stay alive as long as possible if that is how I go. I don't know but I do know it's part of life and always has been to me.

It's funny to see how different we are from the christians and anyone who believes in life after death. We see life should be enjoyed and that doesn't mean take what we want no matter what, how or who it may hurt. Yet the christians twist how we see life and claim we mean the exact opposite. They see life as begging for forgivness for being born and not perfect and temporary then focus on physical death. Hey if it makes them happy here ok by me just stop trying to force it on me and legislating it to the Country.
Sinny: It doesn't seem to make them very happy. Even when they say they are, they usually seem to be looking over their shoulder, since they have to fear slipping up and winding up with Beelzebub, especially those who say that only a very select group (like 144,000) make it into the 'Pearly Gates'!

Besides that, we get to live our lives according to our own ethics, not worrying about the silly religious taboos and requirements.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
Catman, the reason I know "A Man and a Woman" is because of "Oh Girl". It is on the Chi-Lites album "A Lonely Man" which I foolishly bought because it had "Oh Girl" on it. Considering how many albums of the early seventies contained one hit and a lot of shit I got lucky. That particular album is in fact quite good.

Sinny, I have often thought that the main reason people embrace the proposition of the afterlife is fear of death. I am not going to suggest I have no fear of death, I do not like the idea and will resist it as long as I can. My main problem with the death cults is that they negate what we really are and what we must do for the future of our children and the rest of the world.

Many condemn others for lack of conformity and lack of understanding of the true way. These people wish to impose their understanding on the rest. If they accepted that we have the one life and that others had the right to that too we would all be better off.
Edited by JohnH on 05/20/2009 04:24
Doubting Thomas
I don't really have a fear of death more than not wanting it to happen before it needs to. I do want to live to be old & grey with many grandchildren, so I know at least a part of me will live on.

I see death as being like before you were born. It would be oblivion, no thoughts, nothing but eternal dreamless sleep with no chance of waking up. One minute you're here, the next you're gone forever. And I'm OK with this. This does seem far more preferable to an eternity of happiness or suffering.

Right now my wife's grandfather is in the hospital and it doesn't look good. So if he does die soon, I'm sure I'll have to put up with hearing about how he's "in a better place," or "he's in heaven now," etc. Which is fine if they want to believe that, but it still grates on my nerves having to hear other people use their coping mechanism. Personally, I think it is far better to celebrate the deceased's life and what a great person they were, and always remember them rather than hold on to some false belief that they're in a happy place waiting for you to join them at some point in the future.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
Wow we all seem to agree a lot here.

Catman I noticed there are basically two types, yet both the same at the same time, of christians. The doomsdayers aren't happy with their lives that's why they focus on the end of the world baloney and because they want to get even with everyone who didn't believe their fairytale story while also believing they are safe. Then there are the other types who aren't obsessed with the end of the world but do acknowledge they belive it will all happen. These type of xtians focus on getting into and staying in some kind of grace to go to heaven and drive everyone they know up a wall with being told you could die anytime and I care about you and want you safe in jesus's arms blah blah blah. I never heard any of them say 144,000 are select few who go into the supposed heaven. If I did I would crack up laughing and tell them they they don't know their own made up story:lol:.
I think the doomsayers are looking forward to the 'end times' because they will enjoy seeing all the unsaved people dropping into perdition and suffering. Allegedly the 144,000 figure is found somewhere in Revelations, but I'm not motivated enough to dig through that nutty stuff looking for it. I've seen the number mentioned more than once by the weirdos who believe it.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
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