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Passer-By Pushes Potential Suicide Jumper From Bridge In China
Sinny
I don't know if anyone here finds this interesting but I thought it a little funny since we don't hear this kind of thing everyday.

I'm inclined to think Lai is right about Chen. If someone really wants to die they wouldn't choose to in public except when trying to force the police to do it for them by deliberately placing themselves in a situation where the police would have no other choice. They do that when they want to die but don't want to do it themselves Another thing that gets me about this is the reason is totally lame. Money problems!?!? WTF. Hey anyone can file for bankruptcy and get food stamps and get help one way or another. I could understand being in constant pain and as many of you here know I do believe in the right to die with dignity but this doesn't apply. The funny thing is when do we ever hear of a passer by like Lai having the nerve to push one ha ha nothing like giving the guy a little help. I bet there's some people who want to when having to wait 5 hours in traffic.

[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/23/passerby-pushes-potential_n_207064.html[/url]

[quote]BEIJING
Edited by Sinny on 05/23/2009 21:08
 
cheshiredragon
It is called suicide by police. I somewhat agree with Lai about the public display. It is either someone wanting attention or it is in fact that one last ditch effort to get people to listen to you and take you seriously to get you help. It is a nightmare trying to get help on your own. Not that the help is hard to find but, it is SO damn hard to ask for the help. You don't want to admit something is wrong. Feels almost like a crushing feeling in your chest. Anyone who is serious will simply drink a multiple beers or large amounts of whatever drug they do and commit the act in a quiet and peaceful setting. Makes it much easier then having to deal with all the distractions of city life or anything else that is going on.
That's right, I said it...
 
RayvenAlandria
I read about this yesterday. In far eastern countries being in debt is more shameful than it is here. It used to be considered honorable to kill yourself. Times have changed but many still hold to old ways and take that route.

I agree that for many depressed people, public displays like that are for attention or are desperate cries for help. They may feel the need to find sympathy so they can have an excuse not to kill themselves, hoping someone will talk them out of it, so to speak. I think that behavior may be universal and not just an oriental culture thing.
 
Hypatia
Interesting you should post this story Sinny. I read about it and thought about posting the story too.

It's sad, but at the same time made me think a couple of things: In a way Lai is right - if you're going to do something and it's a personal thing, shit or get off the pot. I do not mean to equate all things in people's lives - feeling suicidal is certainly not equal to feeling like wanting to visit Disney World. Feeling suicidal isn't equal to what someone may feel who has decided to end their own life (for weighed, thought out reasons). Therefore though I can empathize with how people may feel about someone tying up traffic for hours I still have more empathy for the person on the bridge who may eventually decide to jump. In the scheme of life, of our existence - the brief flash we, and that person on the bridge are (and the agony they may be going through) the traffic, etc., means little, if anything.

And then, of course, I still come back around to the thought that, shit, you never know when someone who is nuttier than yourself may come along and fucking push you off the damn bridge.

So it's probably a good idea to either shit or get off the pot. Jump or go some place and think about it for a while.

Damn.

 
Sinny
And then, of course, I still come back around to the thought that, shit, you never know when someone who is nuttier than yourself may come along and fucking push you off the damn bridge.


:lol:

I feel for the guy Chen I just don't think he was serious about commiting suicide since he stayed there for 5 hours. Sheesh that's a long time to not know if he really wanted to or not. I think most people who do the attempted suicide publicly really don't want to die and most, though I can't say for sure just a thought, regret trying at the last minute when it's too late. Unless they take sleeping pills then there's no consciousness to regret anything at the last minute.

In any case Chen will now get the help, hopefully, he needs. Thing is he really didn't think it through now he will be subjected to therapy and most likely be locked up with hands and feet tied for who knows how long. It looks too much like he did it for attention not for help to stay alive.
 
Sinny
Rayven I don't see any indication that it's due to culture or his feeling shameful. If he really did feel shameful and it was his belief due to culture, learned behavior, then he would have done it silently in his home or somewhere private.

I do see it is universal that's obvious since it happens everywhere at all ages and for many different reasons. This just doesn't add up to a man in desperation wanting to die.

 
Sinny
CD I know getting help can be a bitch and a half. I know it's hard for people to aks for help when considering suicide. Seriously I do know and understand. This is why I think the procedure on what to do and how to help someone who tries to reach out for help needs to change.

This BS with people going into a hospital and bieng strapped down for hours or even days should be stopped. We need more facilities where people can go to that only work with suicide patients. We need it to be staffed with therapists that work only with suicidal patients. Some people are freightened by the fear of being told or treated like they are crazy when they aren't. They just need help and it should be given with compassion, empathy and dignity. Not every one needs to be strapped down at the time they are seeking help. Not everyone needs to be put in a padded room and forced to wear a strait jacket. If there were proper facilities with the staff and therapists on call for the police or the person seeking help could go to they would get the help they need and would have a choice of different therapists to choose from of whom they would feel comfortable talking to. They would also get the medication they need right there and stay until they are able to leave without wanting to commit suicide. I should be regulated for the patients safety and family and friends should be able to visit just like at any hospital. I'm not talking about some crazy assed horror film insane assylum I'm talking about a facility much like a small emergency room only for suicide attempts, thoughts and help.
Edited by Sinny on 05/24/2009 20:21
 
RayvenAlandria
Sinny wrote:
Rayven I don't see any indication that it's due to culture or his feeling shameful. If he really did feel shameful and it was his belief due to culture, learned behavior, then he would have done it silently in his home or somewhere private.

I do see it is universal that's obvious since it happens everywhere at all ages and for many different reasons. This just doesn't add up to a man in desperation wanting to die.



It has cultural overtones. Read up on the recent increase in suicide rates (and attempts) in the Far East. This article didn't mention it, but the info is accessible if you'd like to google it.

Hopefully this idiocy will go the way of the dodo, but there are still many old school oriental people who think a person should commit suicide rather than bring shame and debt to the family. I do think that this particular man might have been hoping someone would talk him out of it so he wouldn't have to kill himself though.
 
catman
CD: I don't know that I wouldn't rather commit suicide than go to Disney World.Grin

I think that Chen was having his own self-indulgent pity party, tying up traffic for hours. It isn't that I don't feel sorry for people who are suicidal, but hanging around in public as a spectacle for five hours isn't the way to do it. I admit that I've thought about it before, although only in the hypothetical terms of thinkinging that I might do so if I had a terminal disease and nothing to look forward to but pain. If I were to off myself, I certainly wouldn't do it like Chen's alleged attempt.
Edited by catman on 05/24/2009 23:59
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
cheshiredragon
Eastern culture is still stuck in its ancient ways. Suicide is a form of honor depending on the situation...Seppuku I believe it is called.

I like your idea for that place, Sinny but, i still don't think it would work. The reasons you give are exactly why I'd never go to a hospital emergency room. No straight jacket or tied down to the beds but, I spent almost a full 72hrs in an emergency room, could only leave to use the restroom and was followed by a security guard. That was the worst 3days of my life and I never want to go back to that again no matter how bad or serious it gets. That place is pretty much why I decided to shut up about it rather than continue acting like Mr. Chen. I didn't tie up traffic or climb to building tops, but I did voice it to family, that was a mistake all in itself too. I believe that after a while one has no place to go. It is even more frustrating when trying this shite over and over again without any results.
Edited by cheshiredragon on 05/25/2009 00:02
That's right, I said it...
 
catman
CD: I think seppuku is the Japanese hara-kiri, eviscerating oneself with a sword (!).
Edited by catman on 05/25/2009 00:02
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
cheshiredragon
disembowelment, yes, Hari-kari, that's the word i was looking for
That's right, I said it...
 
Sinny
RayvenAlandria wrote:
Sinny wrote:
Rayven I don't see any indication that it's due to culture or his feeling shameful. If he really did feel shameful and it was his belief due to culture, learned behavior, then he would have done it silently in his home or somewhere private.

I do see it is universal that's obvious since it happens everywhere at all ages and for many different reasons. This just doesn't add up to a man in desperation wanting to die.



It has cultural overtones. Read up on the recent increase in suicide rates (and attempts) in the Far East. This article didn't mention it, but the info is accessible if you'd like to google it.

Hopefully this idiocy will go the way of the dodo, but there are still many old school oriental people who think a person should commit suicide rather than bring shame and debt to the family. I do think that this particular man might have been hoping someone would talk him out of it so he wouldn't have to kill himself though.


Rayven I'm not saying I disagree with you about it being cultural to them I meant that I don't see Chen as doing due to a cultural belief. It's possible and yes there are overtones in it but I just don't see it with this guy. He may use it as an excuse now but it doesn't fly with me. I have read up on it already before posting here but thanks anyway. I know it's been on the rise I still don't believe it's part of Chens reasons. I too think he wanted to be talked out of it but I also think that's only because he never really wanted to in the first place. It really doesn't relieve the family of shame or debt when a person commits suicide if anything it brings more pain and sometimes shame depending on beliefs/cultures and education. We know this but they don't think of that.

Oh btw good luck on your trip. make sure, not that you wouldn't, you get a good tune up on your car and tires checked too before you leave. Hope you have a GPS just in case. It's much better and more reliable than maps and directions even when you know where you're going. Don't blame you son for not wanting the movers to bring it to him. I wouldn't either.
 
Sinny
cheshiredragon wrote:
Eastern culture is still stuck in its ancient ways. Suicide is a form of honor depending on the situation...Seppuku I believe it is called.

I like your idea for that place, Sinny but, i still don't think it would work. The reasons you give are exactly why I'd never go to a hospital emergency room. No straight jacket or tied down to the beds but, I spent almost a full 72hrs in an emergency room, could only leave to use the restroom and was followed by a security guard. That was the worst 3days of my life and I never want to go back to that again no matter how bad or serious it gets. That place is pretty much why I decided to shut up about it rather than continue acting like Mr. Chen. I didn't tie up traffic or climb to building tops, but I did voice it to family, that was a mistake all in itself too. I believe that after a while one has no place to go. It is even more frustrating when trying this shite over and over again without any results.


I thought the reasons I gave are what would help it to work and more acceptable to people in need of help. Hospitals are what I don't like for attempted/thoughts of suicide. They strap people in and are horrible with having a Doctor/Therapist available. I like the idea of a facility that gives people dignity and not some horror trauma to add to the pain they are already in. The need for better training particularly in how people are treated and approached when they come for help in this field is desperately needed. Strapping a person down for days is unacceptable especially when that person asked for help and isn't like my family member was. Which is totally irate, violent and screaming uncontrollably. If the facilities were more sensitive, caring and better equipped with properly trained personnel and therapists it could work. If I could I'd give it a try and make any and all improvements necessary to help people without scareing the crap out of them or treating them like they are insane lunatics when they aren't. There's a difference between the insane and someone who wants/considers/attempts suicide. If anyone should have been a billionaire it should have been me I could do so much with all that money.

Maybe I misunderstood but are you saying you were in a facility or a hospital? I thought it was a hospital that did that to you.
Edited by Sinny on 05/25/2009 00:28
 
Hypatia
cheshiredragon wrote:
Eastern culture is still stuck in its ancient ways. Suicide is a form of honor depending on the situation...Seppuku I believe it is called.

I like your idea for that place, Sinny but, i still don't think it would work. The reasons you give are exactly why I'd never go to a hospital emergency room. No straight jacket or tied down to the beds but, I spent almost a full 72hrs in an emergency room, could only leave to use the restroom and was followed by a security guard. That was the worst 3days of my life and I never want to go back to that again no matter how bad or serious it gets. That place is pretty much why I decided to shut up about it rather than continue acting like Mr. Chen. I didn't tie up traffic or climb to building tops, but I did voice it to family, that was a mistake all in itself too. I believe that after a while one has no place to go. It is even more frustrating when trying this shite over and over again without any results.


That any person in need of help - on any level, but most especially in need of urgent help, needs to resort to shutting up about their situation, or maybe is faced with suddenly, unexpectedly deciding suicide is their only solution because other help hasn't been available, is outrageous.

People should not have to fear they will have to go through the kinds of things CD has mentioned, or not being able to get help. They should only have to say they need it.
 
RayvenAlandria
You're right Sinny, this particular guy may have just been an attention seeker. He picked a bridge that was well know for suicide jumpers and he held up traffic for hours. He may not have even been suicidal, he could have just been histrionic and wanted the spotlight and sympathy.

CD, your experience was terrible and I'm sorry it happened but try to look at the other side, they had a responsibility to protect you and the other people there. Some distraught people kill others before taking themselves out, so the security guard had to ask like an ass and follow you. I know it sucks to be treated like a criminal when you go someplace looking for help, but that's reality. If I felt someone was extremely distraught I would follow them to the bathroom as well, and I have done so in the past.

We need a better system. It's hard to balance safety and personal boundaries. We have to tolerate things like though, just like we have to tolerate airport security even though we aren't a terrorist, because someone out there is. If you took your son to an emergency room and there was someone there who was suicidal and about to snap, you'd be pissed if the security didn't keep and eye on them and follow them to the bathroom. It's all about perspective and your position in the situation.

Anyhoo, I'm off on my trip. Yes Sinny, I have the truck tuned up, fluids checked, and all that jazz., thanks. We have a tomtom with us, but what's weird is that it refuses to show the route that we're taking, it insists on showing ones that are hours longer. Weird. I think I'll chop the route into two and force it to show the route I want to take.
 
Sinny
Rayven I do updates on my Navigon GPS and I start out my way then if something is wrong, like a blocked street or highway, which has happened to me, I simply stop, slow down, pull over and let it re-adjust to the new route. I find going past where the block is helps it to re-route easier. Also I find it real cool how it will remember another way I know that's a shorter route and keep it in memory. Anyway be safe and don't be in a hurry. Yeah Mother hen here.
 
Sinny
I see Hypatia and Rayven are both right here. However I do think when the security guards are escorting someone to the bathroom they should make sure they have some privacy. Not like the way guards are in a jail/prison. They actually watch them go to the bathroom, literally that is humiliating and not necessary. Once given a change of clothing and timed for a quick bathroom stop there's not much danger of their doing harm to themselves.

A facility that's set up for their protection and comfort that's not like a resort or an institution either with trained staff, personnel and therapists would make a difference for people like CD and others in a similar situation. CD you should not have been immediately strapped down when you willing came on your own for help. You posed no threat to anyone else and having your own room to stay in while the therapist was on their way would have helped you. I would like to see facilities set up that way so the therapists would always be available in emergencies. Problem is too many of them are in private practice. Hospitals don't hire enough to cover for emergency walk ins and aren't staffed for emergencies like suicidal attempts/thoughts. They have enough with every other kind of emergency. I'd rather you have something like this than resort to keeping quiet and needlessly suffering alone.
 
RayvenAlandria
I think it always depends on the individuals involved. If a security guard followed CD, (or anyone else), to the bathroom and acted like a jerk, it would be so very inappropriate and unnecessary. That would piss me off, big time. People who are already hurting shouldn't be treated like garbage. If the security guard were kind and sensitive and made an apologetic statement to let the person know that he/she had to follow regulations and was sorry they had to follow them around it would not be quite as bad. It's all in the attitude. If you actually care that someone is in emotional pain it makes the violation of their boundaries much less upsetting to them.

Of course, many healthcare workers get burned out and become insensitive, and we all know security guards, (or cops), who are complete and utter assholes, so my *gentle violation of personal space* probably doesn't happen in most cases. It's a shame but it's something I guess we have to deal with. If you're the person who's being followed like a criminal or potential mass murderer, you just have to tell yourself that they don't know you and they have to follow the rules and try not to let it eat at you. It's a bad system, but it's the way it works in an overcrowed world where we constantly interact with complete strangers.
 
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