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Iran
RayvenAlandria
What are your thoughts about the Iranian election and the protests?

About 19 years ago I was engaged to a Pakistani man who educated me about the region. Before then I had assumed the whole country was made up of Muslim fundies and terrorists. I found out that the younger generation was well educated and progressive, and very oppressed. I had interesting discussions with Shabbir and many of his friends, (some of whom were Iranian), about what the future might hold and it was our theory that eventually the younger generations would rise up and overthrown the crazy fundies. The current events make me wonder if that is about to happen.

I hope it does, even though I fear the inevitable bloodshed and horrors. I also know there is a good chance we and other nations will be drug into another war with a dictatorship. (yeah we all know they pretend they are not one, but c'mon!). We're spread too thin as it is.

Do you think this is the beginning of the uprising?
 
derF
Iran's current leaders (the Clerics not the so-called elected officials) have really underestimated their own people. By claiming the victor won the election with 66 percent of the vote hours before the polls closed left them wide open for the resulting riots. They assumed that the population would just accept the reported results and things would stay the course. They are now finding out that the Iranian people (at least the young ones) are very determined to live in a free society where their votes count. This is when we find out whether the ayatollahs who run the country are benign leaders or just another dictatorship.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
I doubt very much that they are benign leaders. After all, they have Allah on their side, and the absurd early proclamation of victory gives the lie to their honesty. It is my opinion that it doesn't matter very much who won the election, as the real power resides with the clerics.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
RayvenAlandria
The clerics are the dictators I was referring to. I feel the *elected* officials are a facade. From what I've been told, many Iranians feel that the clerics and the religious leaders are old fashioned idiots and ignore a lot of what they say, but out of respect, (or most likely fear), they haven't risen up against them.

I hope change is on the way and it's not a bloody revolution, or at least that it's as non-bloody as it could possibly be.
 
catman
I hope change is on the way too, but I will be surprised if the clerics/dictators will give in. It may come down to whose side the army and police take, and what they are willing to do to enforce it.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
derF
From what I've seen on the news the Police have no problem chasing the demonstrators through the streets on their motorcycles and beating them savagely with clubs. Don't look good for the protesters.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
RayvenAlandria
It seems things are getting worse. The Iranian governement is not only blocking access to most internet sites but are now threatening sites that post information they deem unacceptable.

Another thing bothers me though. Mousavi isn't exactly a nice guy himself, so I am not sure if having him as the Iranian president would be any better than the current one. Mousavi started the secret Iranian nuclear program back when he was the prime minister and he's stated that he intends to keep the nuclear program active if elected. He was also an adamant supported of Hizb’Allah (aka Hezbollah, Hizballah / Hizbollah / Hizbullah)

So, all that would happen is that Iran would trade one corrupt regime for another. He might be better than Ahmadinejad, but probably not by much. Plus, it's the supreme leader, Khamenei, who's really running the country. As long as he and his nutbag clerics are in control I don't see how much can change.
 
derF
Let's face it, whatever puppet of the Ayatollahs gets elected to office, that puppet will still be moved and voiced by the Ayatollahs/Despots/Dictators/Tyrants/Oppressors. Whatever you would like to call them.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Adam Ajaja
derF wrote:
From what I've seen on the news the Police have no problem chasing the demonstrators through the streets on their motorcycles and beating them savagely with clubs. Don't look good for the protesters.


They have also been storming into student flats and battering students not involved in the protest

I would like to see this uprising succeed. The new regime may not be as tolerant as we would like it, but it would be a step in that direction and they need to start somewhere
 
derF
Adam Ajaja wrote:
derF wrote:
From what I've seen on the news the Police have no problem chasing the demonstrators through the streets on their motorcycles and beating them savagely with clubs. Don't look good for the protesters.


They have also been storming into student flats and battering students not involved in the protest

I would like to see this uprising succeed. The new regime may not be as tolerant as we would like it, but it would be a step in that direction and they need to start somewhere


I agree Adam. Oh, and by the way, I would like to welcome you to our site. Always good to have another fellow Scandinavian on board.

Edited to add one lousy, no good, low down, worthless, condescending comma for crying out loud.
Edited by derF on 06/20/2009 00:07
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Doubting Thomas
I for one would like to see the demonstrations continue. Or, what I'd really like to see, is a widespread revolt against the heavy-handed tactics of the government to quash free speech. While it may not and probably won't happen, at least it won't be forgotten in the minds of those who witnessed the oppression. Perhaps in the future it will be the impetus toward overthrowing the theocracy that has been Iran since 1979.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
derF
It is plainly visible that this so called theocracy is nothing more than a dictatorship in disguise. I am cheering on the people of Iran.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
Yes, it appears that the Ayatollah who really runs the country has come down on the side of Ahmadinejad. I'm so surprised. My understanding is that after the Ayatollah's threats, the massive protest planned for Saturday only amounted to 3000 protesters.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
sin
I'm cheeringthem on too. I hope they win and I hope they have re-election that is properly monitored this time.

DerF your edits LMAO.
 
Adam Ajaja
The Ayatollah is claiming there was obviously no election fraud even though one town submitted votes equal to 140% of its population. Hmmmmmm
 
RayvenAlandria
I have been watching so much stuff about Iran that I need to take a break. I think I'll play zoo tycoon today or something. It's frustrating to see such horror and not be able to do anything about it.

There are videos of people being killed. One woman Neda, was shot and died, a little buy was beaten up, etc... It's hard to watch.

I hope the revolution succeeds. I just hope whoever comes to power in the aftermath is more moderate than the current regime. It would be great if they oust all the religious leaders but it may be too soon for that kind of a shift. Both sides think *god* is one their side, so we may end up with zealots in power no matter who wins.
 
catman
No matter which side wins, the Ayatollah remains. As long as that is the case, the rest is window dressing.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
RayvenAlandria
Very True. Many protesters are chanting "death to Khomeini" but they are probably a minority. Nothing with change until he and his cronies/clerics are gone.
 
sin
catman wrote:
No matter which side wins, the Ayatollah remains. As long as that is the case, the rest is window dressing.


Ah but there is more hope of that changing with this generation and if there's a re-election done with strict over seeing of the votes counted. The younger generation is a lot stronger than realized.
 
catman
sin: That's a mighty big 'if', and I can't see an honest counting of the votes happening in Iran. I don't think anything will change until the allegiances of the armed forces and police change, and that's not likely to happen any time soon either.

A relevant quotation: "He who casts the votes decides nothing. He who counts the votes decides everything". - Joseph Stalin
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
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