View Thread

Atheists Today » The Real World » Medicine
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
World Wide Health Care
derF
As, probably, many of you know, America's national leaders are about to debate and hopefully improve America's Health Care system. A healthy majority of Americans would like to see a single payer system put in place. But many here are afraid of what that might entail.

I am asking members here, members who do not live in the United States, to tell me what you think of your country's health care system. Especially if it is the single payer type, government run, which most of you probably are. We are trying to be led to believe by conservatives here in America that you have second rate health care in your countries, or worse.

Please, tell us how you feel about your country's health care system. It is very important to us.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Theory_Execution
In the UK we have the National Health Service paid for through taxation.

Last year the budget for the NHS was around 90billion and has been pledged to increase to 110billion by 2011. The population of the UK is 60million.

The issue we do face with the NHS is that much of the administrative work, and target based delivery is handled by local Trusts. That is a council like organistation that monitors the health care for a city or a portion of a city.

Obviously this causes problems relating to laziness and failing to reach targets, but it allows for a city to assign funding to areas that are relevant in its city. For instance high polluting cities may need to treat more asthematic patients.

There are also groups that independantly assess hospitals on their ability to live up to cleanliness regulations and maximum A&E waiting time targets.

The NHS is subject to the global market however, so in this latest economic downturn it has lost a lot of capital, and health care will be reflected in this loss.

The majority of the population are happy to deal with the NHS, and medical students seem to look down on those who leave the NHS and go private.

But that option, for those who wish to spend money, is always there for the upper classes. So I think the only objection to a national health care system is from those who have the money to easily pay for any care they seek.
 
Adam Ajaja
Here in Finland, emergency treatment is supported by taxation - a sort of NHS-lite. Other things (such as cosmetic surgery) are paid for by the person wanting it (each visit to the docs for such a thing is a flat fee of about 12.80 euros per visit, but you only pay this for the first two visits in a year)
 
Hypatia
Adam Ajaja wrote:
Here in Finland, emergency treatment is supported by taxation - a sort of NHS-lite. Other things (such as cosmetic surgery) are paid for by the person wanting it (each visit to the docs for such a thing is a flat fee of about 12.80 euros per visit, but you only pay this for the first two visits in a year)


What about non-emergency, non-elective cosmetic type care, such as annual physicals, well/sick baby care, routine doctors visits, routine surgery, etc?
Edited by Hypatia on 07/04/2009 18:03
 
derF
Hypatia wrote:
Adam Ajaja wrote:
Here in Finland, emergency treatment is supported by taxation - a sort of NHS-lite. Other things (such as cosmetic surgery) are paid for by the person wanting it (each visit to the docs for such a thing is a flat fee of about 12.80 euros per visit, but you only pay this for the first two visits in a year)


What about non-emergency, non-elective cosmetic type care, such as annual physicals, well/sick baby care, routine doctors visits, routine surgery, etc?


Yes, we would appreciate as much information as you are willing to give us.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Adam Ajaja
Hypatia wrote:
Adam Ajaja wrote:
Here in Finland, emergency treatment is supported by taxation - a sort of NHS-lite. Other things (such as cosmetic surgery) are paid for by the person wanting it (each visit to the docs for such a thing is a flat fee of about 12.80 euros per visit, but you only pay this for the first two visits in a year)


What about non-emergency, non-elective cosmetic type care, such as annual physicals, well/sick baby care, routine doctors visits, routine surgery, etc?


routine doctor visits are covered by the "pay for the first two" part

baby care is considered important and covered under vital stuff

what do you mean by routine surgery? If it's something you actually NEED it's probably in the "free, paid by tax" grouping
Edited by Adam Ajaja on 07/05/2009 05:15
 
Sentinal
in australia, our healthcare is supported by taxation, it is completely free if you earn under 50k, otherwise a small ley is payable at the end of the year. no matter what, apart from elective surgery(which unfortunately transplants come under until life threatening) hospital treatment is free. hospital prescribed medicine is free, private practice meds are cheap as they are covered by the pharmaceutical benefits scheme PBS, my ventolin inhaler retails for around $AUD40 where on the PBS it is only $AUD4, no comparison. emergency is free and major surgery is free. australian medicare card is like gold. the entitlements are nothing short of amazing. if you need it, you can have it. we also have a private system if you choose, but who cares when you can get it for nix. no matter the cost for government, the system is a pillar in our society. the only thing that really lacks in aus is the dental system where there is no cover unless you go private. i had a root canal in aus for $AUD1300 by comparison i got one here in japan for $AUD30, it blew me away, i can have my whole mouth done for less than one root canal . teeth are important for ones wellbeing.

 
Theory_Execution
In the UK you have General Practitioners, GPs, who are placed throughout cities in their own practices. Appointments are free and usually last for about 10minutes, but you can ask for an extended appointment if you think your issue requires it.

They prescribe drugs and then you have to go to a chemist to get them. You pay for most of them I think, but if you are unemployed or an OAP you get a discount or get them for free - I think thats how it works.


I was speaking with my housemate yesterday about doctors being encouraged to stay within the NHS. Its actually law that they must work within the NHS for a while, and the benefits of staying within it is that further education and training is given without cost to the doctor.

So, say you were a private doctor and a new piece of technology came out, or a new procedure developed you would have to pay for the training yourself.

You can get cosmetic surgery on the NHS if you can sucessfully demonstrate that it will improve your quality of life but I think the waiting lists are long.

They have started to do gastric band ops on the NHS over here aswell, providing you are over a certain age, willing to first work at conventional methods of weight loss and not suffering from things that may make it difficult.

 
Hypatia
Adam wrote:

what do you mean by routine surgery? If it's something you actually NEED it's probably in the "free, paid by tax" grouping


I meant surgery that isn't of an emergency nature, and the word 'routine' probably wasn't a good choice. But I meant surgery such as gallbladder, hysterectomy, tonsillectomy, joint replacements, etc.

But I see you still managed to get what I was looking for.
 
Hypatia
Sentinal wrote:
in australia, our healthcare is supported by taxation, it is completely free if you earn under 50k, otherwise a small ley is payable at the end of the year. no matter what, apart from elective surgery(which unfortunately transplants come under until life threatening) hospital treatment is free. hospital prescribed medicine is free, private practice meds are cheap as they are covered by the pharmaceutical benefits scheme PBS, my ventolin inhaler retails for around $AUD40 where on the PBS it is only $AUD4, no comparison. emergency is free and major surgery is free. australian medicare card is like gold. the entitlements are nothing short of amazing. if you need it, you can have it. we also have a private system if you choose, but who cares when you can get it for nix. no matter the cost for government, the system is a pillar in our society. the only thing that really lacks in aus is the dental system where there is no cover unless you go private. i had a root canal in aus for $AUD1300 by comparison i got one here in japan for $AUD30, it blew me away, i can have my whole mouth done for less than one root canal . teeth are important for ones wellbeing.



Australia's health care system seems wonderful to me, as an American.

What is the overall health care system of Japan like?
 
Theory_Execution
The Australian system is pretty similar to us then, but even the rich can have medical care for free.

We also have an issue with NHS dental care, the waiting lists are long and it can be difficult to get seen on them. Im registered private and luckily havent had any serious need for any work. I havent been private for long though and have had teeth removed and fillings put in for free.
 
sin
Free paid by tax dollars means American's would flip out at that. Americans don't like their taxes raised. Especially when raised to provide for the non working. Does free paid by tax dollars mean anyone and everyone regareless of income or working/non working status, is covered? dumb question but had to ask LOL.

I know if over $50,000 but what about people who make under 60, 70, or even 80 but more than 50,000. Does being a Senior Citizen make a difference like it does here in America for certain medical needs such as hearing aids, glasses, etc.
Edited by sin on 07/05/2009 19:55
 
sin
shit here in US you have to be rich to afford the premiums on your own. Shock
 
Hypatia
This is all true, Sin, but I think by now Americans pretty much understand and accept that the only way for us to have a National health care system is going to be, at least in part, by raising taxes. Hopefully we can sort of model the UK's, or Australia's systems (but hopefully with better dental options), tailored to suit our country/states, and cover everyone who needs it. Hopefully that would also be the answer to high premiums.

As far as covering people who are 'non working', people go in and out of employment for various periods of time, and so many become unemployed for reasons completely beyond their control. I don't think it would be right to exclude everyone who is 'non working' from being entitled to the same health care benefits as everyone else.

*Edit - unless maybe it's the chronically (for no good reason) unemployed.
Edited by Hypatia on 07/06/2009 01:09
 
derF
Sin wrote: Free paid by tax dollars means American's would flip out at that. Americans don't like their taxes raised. Especially when raised to provide for the non working. Does free paid by tax dollars mean anyone and everyone regareless of income or working/non working status, is covered?


Hypatia wrote: This is all true, Sin, but I think by now Americans pretty much understand and accept that the only way for us to have a National health care system is going to be, at least in part, by raising taxes.


Whoa! Hold your horses. Isn't anyone reading anything or paying attention. Ladies if we get a National Health Care System everyone will be paying a lot less. We already pay twice as much as any other industrialized nation and get some of the worst care. Paying less is not INCREASING any thing. Less means less. Where does all this raising taxes crap come from. Far right wing nut cases I guess. And everyone will be covered including me if I have a stroke and lose my job and my health insurance with the possibility of driving my family into bankruptcy.

Edited to within an inch of its life.
Edited by derF on 07/06/2009 01:37
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
JohnH
More politely said, americans pay more for health care than any other developed nation. How that cost is distributed reasonably is open to debate, that this cost must be reduced should not be. One of the significant factors in health care cost is the need for profit in the administration of costs, the health care insurance business. If the cost of administration of health care is given to a single non profit entity that cost could be significantly reduced. The exact details are frankly beyond me but there are multiple international examples of how it can be done.

edited mostly because derF is correct, politeness has rarely gotten americans anything.
Edited by JohnH on 07/06/2009 02:29
 
derF
Politeness hasn't done anything for the American people for the last two or three decades but, essentially, JohnH, your post was spot on.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Theory_Execution
Whoa! Hold your horses. Since when has Ameirca tried to get anywhere by being polite? The world knows America as a violent bully.

Anywho lol, those who are out of work can just as easily seek medical attention as those in work. And I believe they can get much of the medicine for free too.

Lets mkae some assumptions here;

Assuming America had the infrastructure in place.
Assuming the UK model could be extrapolated to the size of America.
And assuming we have pretty similar health needs.

Pop of USA = 300mil
Pop of UK = 60mil
NHS cost = 110bil

So (300 x 110000) / 60 = 550bil = $892bil

To give that some perspective at the risk of gettin the numbers wrong (using wiki here) the US spends $515bil on the military each year.
 
sin
derF wrote:
Sin wrote: Free paid by tax dollars means American's would flip out at that. Americans don't like their taxes raised. Especially when raised to provide for the non working. Does free paid by tax dollars mean anyone and everyone regareless of income or working/non working status, is covered?


Hypatia wrote: This is all true, Sin, but I think by now Americans pretty much understand and accept that the only way for us to have a National health care system is going to be, at least in part, by raising taxes.


Whoa! Hold your horses. Isn't anyone reading anything or paying attention. Ladies if we get a National Health Care System everyone will be paying a lot less. We already pay twice as much as any other industrialized nation and get some of the worst care. Paying less is not INCREASING any thing. Less means less. Where does all this raising taxes crap come from. Far right wing nut cases I guess. And everyone will be covered including me if I have a stroke and lose my job and my health insurance with the possibility of driving my family into bankruptcy.

Edited to within an inch of its life.


Not to worry DerF we know. We are talking about what the majority or rather the already average tax paying Insured will think and say.
 
Hypatia
derF wrote:
Sin wrote: Free paid by tax dollars means American's would flip out at that. Americans don't like their taxes raised. Especially when raised to provide for the non working. Does free paid by tax dollars mean anyone and everyone regareless of income or working/non working status, is covered?


Hypatia wrote: This is all true, Sin, but I think by now Americans pretty much understand and accept that the only way for us to have a National health care system is going to be, at least in part, by raising taxes.


Whoa! Hold your horses. Isn't anyone reading anything or paying attention. Ladies if we get a National Health Care System everyone will be paying a lot less. We already pay twice as much as any other industrialized nation and get some of the worst care. Paying less is not INCREASING any thing. Less means less. Where does all this raising taxes crap come from. Far right wing nut cases I guess. And everyone will be covered including me if I have a stroke and lose my job and my health insurance with the possibility of driving my family into bankruptcy.

Edited to within an inch of its life.


Yeah, that's what I hear. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Mental Health The Lounge 2 09/06/2013 12:02
We do not take care of our own The Rant Room 21 01/29/2013 15:22
Scary News from the Book World Books 2 12/11/2012 08:15
The world will end in 37 days The Lounge 3 11/17/2012 13:13
Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World Funny Zone 5 12/20/2011 10:45