View Thread

Atheists Today » Power and Control » World Politics
Who is here? 1 guest(s)
 Print Thread
Is it coming to the world?
Sinny
Or just to the Third world/poor Countries?

I see quite a few articles discussing world hunger approaching. didn't French President Nicolas Sarkozy go to the he Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) about a year ago? what happened? I don't recall anything coming from that. He went in the middle of a food crisis about assistance for farming in the poorest countries. What about President Obama does he believe there is a food shortage now or coming to the US?

I look in the supermarkets and don't see any indication that we are running out of food. Then again it may be too early to tell.

Discuss?

*edited title
Edited by Skeeve on 08/11/2009 20:52
 
Skeeve
I haven't heard this discussed with much urgency at any of the sites I visit.

This planet is only so big, eventually there will be too many people and not enough agriculture to go around. I don't think we're very close yet, but a little planning would be nice.



"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
Sinny
I have been wondering because of all the food the US wastes and with Countries starving. I also wonder if cloning meat would help in case climatic change or some virus should come along and threaten to take away most of our meat supply. Plus it might help to feed the starving in other Countries to clone our cattle to help them. I almost forgot to mention too that I heard on the TV that starvation is growing in other Countries and now I wonder if it could or will happen in my Country or other Countries, even if they aren't poor or run under a dictatorship, anytime soon.

Hate to look at cows that way but hey they are cattle, don't give back any love or emotional feedback, still should be slaughtered quick and painless thought but yes they are food to many of us. Farming isn't doing all that great either plus farmers are paid not to produce that much as far as I remember it.

I don't see it happening soon either Skeeve but wonder just how close we could be and not being informed.
 
catman
I haven't heard anything lately about running out of food, but if we don't do something about worldwide population growth soon, we will.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
kjbluez
catman wrote:
I haven't heard anything lately about running out of food, but if we don't do something about worldwide population growth soon, we will.
True 'nuff.

I think that people will eventually have to adjust to consuming less meat than we do in developed countries. In fact, a show just last week on NPR was talking about this matter, how consuming less meat would in turn mean more total food products because the rate of food product return from animals is far less that the amount put in.

I'm not a vegetarian or anything, so I'm not saying that everyone would have to be vegetarian, just eat less than many people do currently.
 
derF
(Here is something that I wrote a year or two ago for another web site who's name and purpose escape me. But it is right on topic here.)

Mankind's existence on Earth has been punctuated with one problem after another. Wars, famines, plagues and drought. Those who have been clever enough to come up with solutions have become very wealthy and been venerated in the history books. Modern man is no different from his predecessors in that we are still faced with and still trying to solve the problems that afflict mankind. But he does differ in one thing. He faces a problem that none of his forefathers ever had to face until just very recent years. He faces a problem that could cause millions upon millions of deaths and could even cripple or end civilization as we know it. It is the cause of some, if not most, of our current problems. It is a problem with an easy solution.

Are we talking about global warming? Many think that global warming will be to blame for catastrophic changes in weather causing heretofore unimaginably huge hurricanes, typhoons and monsoons as well as drought and devastating crop failures. Global warming is a huge concern with itís threat to our ice caps and the flooding of major cities at or near sea level. But global warming is not the biggest problem confronting mankind today. It is merely a symptom.

Is the feared clash of civilizations our biggest problem? Will the forces of religious extremism push us into a world wide war of cultures? Again, millions could die in a conflagration that has the ability to pit billions of people against each other. Bring nuclear weapons into the picture and the outlook gets even bleaker. Is this our one big problem facing mankind?

No, again it is only symptomatic of the real problem.

One could come up with other problems, either real or imagined, that could spell doom to our species and most others as well. Disease, earthquakes and strikes from extraterrestrial bodies are possible. But mankind has shown quite great success in combating diseases.

Earthquakes, though devastating, usually happen singularly in relatively small areas and are not a threat to the continuation of the species. Impacts from comets and huge meteors have nearly wiped out all life on the planet on several occasions, and it could happen again. But none have been found that threaten our immediate future.

So, then, what IS this overriding problem? The cause for our biggest concern?....

It is the problem causing global warming. It is the problem that puts us at odds with other countries and religions. It is the cause of many, if not all, of the wars currently being waged on this planet. It is the problem that anyone, who is aware of it, can easily come up with a solution for.

It is overpopulation.

Because of overpopulation we have to deal with problems stemming from shortages of fresh water, food, housing, education, energy and health care. Wars are being fought for the remaining reserves of oil in the mid east. And pollution from burning those very same fossil fuels are causing global warming. Lack of education and the opportunities it affords are driving many to embrace religion and the questionable but desirable lifestyle it promises.

The causes of overpopulation are obvious. Agriculture provided a food source much larger than was available to our hunter gatherer ancestors. Medical advances and more sophisticated protection from the elements all contributed. Certain cultures that embrace fertility and large families also have added to the problem. What is the solution?

Whether you are a devout practitioner of some religion or a dedicated atheist, you are faced with a moral question that no one wants to confront. There needs to be less of us on the planet than there is now. The planet cannot accommodate the numbers of humans alive today and provide them with an acceptable lifestyle. Because of this problem we are faced with global warming, shortages in fresh water, food, housing, education and medicine. Wars are being waged over our quickly shrinking resources. And the situation will only grow more dire as our numbers increase.

Since pre agricultural days when the world population held steady at between 10 and 20 million to 1950 our population has increased by about 2 1/2 billion people. In the last half century population has more than doubled. And in the next quarter century that number could double again. Few would deny that this will cause enormous strains on our ability to sustain those numbers. Yet no one seems to want to confront such an obvious problem. Why is that?

The easy answer is that we are geared for overpopulation. In prehistoric days women had to bare many children to assure that a few made it to child rearing age. Disease, starvation, predation and other forces kept death rates high. It is human nature to produce as many offspring as possible. Certain societies and religions support this view. All leaders, be they leaders of religion or leaders of governments recognize the power and influence having large numbers of followers accommodates them. Therefore these leaders encourage large families and hold fertility in high esteem. Therein lies the problem.

If our world leaders have no desire to lessen their populations and the populations themselves have been taught that baring large numbers of offspring is in everyoneís best interest, then who is going to remedy the situation? Mention of population control is anathema to politicians. Religious leaders preach the virtues of fertility and family. They will not raise the warning.

Only China, that realizes first hand the devastation of overpopulation, is actively pursuing population control. They are finding it difficult to regulate due to the natural instincts of men and women. And since they are a communist nation their views on overpopulation are held in low regard by much of the rest of the world. So what is to become of us?

Nature has always been able to deal with population control of all of itís various life forms. Diseases come along that wipe our huge swaths of overpopulated species. Plagues of locust die out once they have consumed all the available food. Other predators take advantage of the overpopulation when the opportunity arises. Migrating birds have been known to reduce overpopulation's of various insects on many occasions. Does mankind have a similar fate in store for it? Resistant strains of diseases have already caused localized epidemics. Could a super bug be our demise? Scientists are already fearful that an outbreak of bird flu (or now, swine flu) could prove catastrophic. Regardless of the solution sooner or later overpopulation must and will be corrected. Itís a shame that the solution will probably be nature's draconian measures rather that a rational, kind, merciful human solution.


Now why would anyone suspect that I might find something to edit in this miniscule post?
Edited by derF on 08/12/2009 02:42
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
As far as being 'green', climate change, etc., just consider the simple fact that if the people of the world had the same 'carbon footprint' per capita, with half as many people we'd be affecting the climate & environment half as much as we are.

This is one of the things I hold most against religion. It could help, but instead it has the opposite effect. Enough with the fruitfulness and multiplying already.

I think that our destruction of the environment which many other species require for life is appalling and unconscionable. No, they weren't all put here for us to do with as we will, particularly to uncaringly exterminate.

No Lebensraum for any of us. That's not a good thing. The world has a finite ability to support humans, so as we increase in number, the standard of living goes down. I wouldn't want to live on algae.
Edited by catman on 08/12/2009 04:45
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Sinny
DerF that is an excellent article you wrote. I must apologize now ahead of time that I only disagree with one part. I don't believe global warming/climatic change is due to humans. Oh we may contribute some but I don't think it's our doing. The weather is always changing and yep it does seem to be getting hotter but that has happened in the past as we see from evidence from some billions of years ago. We are due for drastic change as we have been told for over 10 years now. What ever happened to the threatening "ice age" that was supposed to come? I think most of the global warming warnings are media hype. Notice all the nice new and improved products on the market and those nasty old products just work as well anymore. To me it's just hype to get grants and sell cool new products while the Companies slack off on quality of the old products to make the new products look that much better and have the extra money to produce the new products. It has to come from somewhere and make a profit so cut back on quality of old products put that into the new products and advertise it as new and improved and add "to save the planet" or "lasts longer" or "go green" and you have a great marketing pitch to sell the cool new product. Yeah I know the ice caps are melting but that to me is a natural occurrence and was happening all along anyway as well as bound to happen sooner or later so why not cash in and go with hypeing it up

I fear over population and global starvation more than anything else. Catastrophic weather/storms, etc are no picnic either but they are more of a natural occurrence than over population.


The easy answer is that we are geared for overpopulation. In prehistoric days women had to bare many children to assure that a few made it to child rearing age. Disease, starvation, predation and other forces kept death rates high. It is human nature to produce as many offspring as possible. Certain societies and religions support this view. All leaders, be they leaders of religion or leaders of governments recognize the power and influence having large numbers of followers accommodates them. Therefore these leaders encourage large families and hold fertility in high esteem. Therein lies the problem.


I doubt that our prehistoric ancestors thought much about reproducing for the purpose of offsetting deaths in childbirth. I think they simply mated when they wanted to because they just simply wanted to....another words they were horny. However, I do see that later, much later, races, cultures did purposely mate for religious reasons and to out number an enemy...power and strength in numbers.

I think most of the reasons for overpopulation is religion, uneducated and impoverished. Last but not least the lazy and stupid.

EDIT: ha ha just thought I don't mean lazy lazy just too lazy to use contraceptives.
Edited by Sinny on 08/13/2009 18:21
 
derF
Sinny:

I wish you were right about global warming. Through the course of its geologic history the Earth has undergone dramatic climate changes running the extremes of global warming to ice ages. They are quite normal and are recorded in the Earths make up. But these changes took place over ten or hundreds of thousands of years. No where have geologists recorded such rapid changes in the average earth temperature. Our ice caps are melting at an astounding rate with parts braking away from the main ice cap the size of states. Carbon dioxide levels have increased since the beginning of the industrial age by nearly triple. Carbon dioxide is the gas the causes the greenhouse effect trapping heat and insulating the earth. Reduction of carbon dioxide reduces the amount of heat trapped and increased amounts trap and retain more heat. Geologists, climatologists and meteorologists all agree as to the causes of global warming.

As for the human instinct to reproduce. It is quite simple. Whether humans realized it or not, they were genetically disposed to producing many offspring. The need to continue ones gene line is instinctual. In prehistoric times having only one or two offspring almost guaranteed the extinction of that particular gene line. It was necessary to create enough offspring to ensure that the line continued. All species reproduce enough offspring to ensure the continuation of the species. Some reproduce thousand of offspring per mating season. Humans, due to the length of the reproductive cycle are not as prolific as other species. Today, with humans living longer and a much lower mortality rate, there is no reason to have more than one or two offspring per family and yet that is rarely the case. Hence, overpopulation.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Sinny
derF wrote:


I wish you were right about global warming. Through the course of its geologic history the Earth has undergone dramatic climate changes running the extremes of global warming to ice ages. They are quite normal and are recorded in the Earths make up. But these changes took place over ten or hundreds of thousands of years. No where have geologists recorded such rapid changes in the average earth temperature. Our ice caps are melting at an astounding rate with parts braking away from the main ice cap the size of states. Carbon dioxide levels have increased since the beginning of the industrial age by nearly triple. Carbon dioxide is the gas the causes the greenhouse effect trapping heat and insulating the earth. Reduction of carbon dioxide reduces the amount of heat trapped and increased amounts trap and retain more heat. Geologists, climatologists and meteorologists all agree as to the causes of global warming.


Yes DerF I heard all this I am still not convinced it's all because of us humans. It wasn't that long ago the claimed reason for the ice caps melting, earth heating up, was because the sun is getting closer. It's possible that once it starts the natural process then starts to increase. For all we know this could have happened this way billions of years ago but because man wasn't around we assume it's happening now because of us. I just don't buy that and I don't want to be forced into purchasing more expensive gadgets because it's claimed/assumed it's only and all because of us. We may be at best contributing to what is already occurring naturally. Even if the US or even Britian and the US both were to stop

derF wrote:
As for the human instinct to reproduce. It is quite simple. Whether humans realized it or not, they were genetically disposed to producing many offspring. The need to continue ones gene line is instinctual. In prehistoric times having only one or two offspring almost guaranteed the extinction of that particular gene line.


Yes DerF I know this and still doubt very much that prehistoric man knew it. They did mate on instinct not intelligence thinking to procreate for the purpose of not letting their species die out. They were no different than any other animal at that time. Animals mated by instinct and in accordance to their cycles not for the specific purpose of ensuring their species wouldn't die out. Nature put that instinct in them, they are born with it just as man was but neither one does it for the purpose of specifically keeping their species alive. It's just done on cycles and feelings of wanting to breed not for a specific purpose on their part. Another words they didn't decide it it was just a natural instinct to to have sex.


derF wrote:
It was necessary to create enough offspring to ensure that the line continued. All species reproduce enough offspring to ensure the continuation of the species. Some reproduce thousand of offspring per mating season. Humans, due to the length of the reproductive cycle are not as prolific as other species. Today, with humans living longer and a much lower mortality rate, there is no reason to have more than one or two offspring per family and yet that is rarely the case. Hence, overpopulation.


It was necessary as time went on and they were no longer prehistoric humans/man. When the desire for power, control, domination came that's when the need to reproduce more of a particular culture, race started and to carry on the name and heritage of kings, etc. In some ways I agree with you and other ways I sort of do and don't.

I read somewhere online that this global warming could be good for crops but I disagree with that since it could easily burn out the crops if it's too hot and our water will evaporate much quicker so never mind flooding which of course is another problem. I think we are closer to a global food shortage than we realize. The panic button hasn't been pressed because there's way to stop it with overpopulation growing. I hate to say this but I'm starting to see what brief short term member once said about humans reproducing weaker humans.

I hate to bring up us living longer because really no one wants to lose a loved one but lets face it sooner or later the decision to say hey grandma/grandpa you seem ok and can get around but you are way too old and taking up too much space and food so it's time. Since no one is making any attempt to cut down on reproducing it just might have to come to that. Reminds me of the old movie Logans Run.
 
Jump to Forum:

Similar Threads

Thread Forum Replies Last Post
Scary News from the Book World Books 2 12/11/2012 08:15
The world will end in 37 days The Lounge 3 11/17/2012 13:13
Sumerians Look On In Confusion As God Creates World Funny Zone 5 12/20/2011 10:45
Are you getting ready for the Second Coming? The Lounge 7 02/27/2011 14:46
Why the World Cup Sucks Let's Talk About Games! 3 06/07/2010 20:52